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Sikorsky S-76B crash (Kobe Bryant) 4

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MacGyverS2000

MacGyverS2000

Electrical
Dec 22, 2003
8,504
Anyone heard any technical details on the cause yet?

Dan - Owner
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One of my former employers used to use helicopters for access to specific sites, although I didn't end up getting to those specific sites.
At one stage they became a bit more cognisant of some of the issues specific to that form of transport and put some of their staff through HUET (training). If some of the videos of people undertaking that sort of training aren't disconcerting, I don't know what is. The training my colleagues received was a lower impact version, but I'm not sorry I missed out on those trips as a result.
 
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I had to Google it:
Helicopter Underwater Escape Training

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
 
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waross said:
Helicopter Underwater Escape Training
Click to expand...

Been there, done that. When I went through flight qualification as a civilian employee of the US Navy I strapped into a seat of a pseudo helicopter to be dunked into a pool and then get flipped upside down under water. Seemed to have managed to get out satisfactorily.
 
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The HUET training these days is mild compared to the 80/90's.

RGIT in Aberdeen used to give you a near death experience. They chilled the pool down to North Sea temperatures. A Wave machine going, a big fan blowing water in your face, pitch black and then you got turned upside down and had to escape and get into rafts.

But they had to tone it down because people were resigning rather than having to do it again. So these days its done in a nice warm pool, lights are all on, no waves. And the instructors aren't Royal Navy ex clearance divers. Its actually quiet good fun.

 
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Itsmoked said:
I just read an article where a decades-of-helicopter-flying chief pilot stated that flying a helicopter without visible clues up thru clouds results in disaster approximately 80% of the time if the pilot also makes the fatal error of attempting to turn while in the maneuver.
Click to expand...
And in the middle of a turn in the clouds he was changing radio frequencies?
Ouch!

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
 
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He probably wasn't changing frequency's but he might have been switching because he was climbing into controlled airspace. I also don't think he would have been in the turn when he started changing freq if that is what he was doing, he was also probably climbing as well. Changed freq and when he looked up he was descending like a brick and his yaw was out of control. Then he was dead.

Some are shall we say over dramatized about getting in conversations with the feds and or having to talk to ATC watch managers because they have screwed up....

Its a pretty hostile ATC environment around lax. There isn't a lot of free air available and the controllers are well known for being stroppy.

In reality they would deal with it. You wouldn't get issues with prioritising flying the machine and then sorting ATC once your safe. You might have discussions why you were in the situation in the first place though.

I don't know what they are like in that area, I have only flown in Florida airspace. I have heard aircraft get themselves into a hole in FL and Orlando where utterly superb dealing with it. After about 30seconds there was a change of voice to a older lady who announced herself as a controller and a CFII and she was going to teach them how to fly on instruments. She got them safely into VMC..

There is an often quoted statistic that a VFR fixed wing pilot going into IMC has an expected life span of 75 seconds after entering cloud. Helicopters its under 60 seconds.
 
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AH: "He probably wasn't changing frequency's but he might have been switching because he was climbing into controlled airspace. I also don't think he would have been in the turn when he started changing freq if that is what he was doing, he was also probably climbing as well. Changed freq and when he looked up he was descending like a brick and his yaw was out of control. Then he was dead."

Real plausible...

Dik
 
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Somewhere earlier there was a point made that the pilot had to wear corrective lenses (reading glasses?) to see the instruments, if he didn't have bifocals or low-rise cheaters on, there could be a delay in trying to don spex to see the panel/switches, adding to the possibility of confusion/lack of situational awareness. I question his decision in trying to terrain-follow in the first place given the fog/clouds, but get that it's easier to do ad-hoc flights at low altitude than file a flight plan through controlled airspace. I'm sure there was pressure from the VIP client to make the flight as well.
 
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he could have also been wearing polarising sunglasses which stop you seeing the screens properly.

Just going to have to wait for the report.
 
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He wasn't terrain following, per se, he was following the freeway, and so it must have been visible at least until he got through the pass, although he was climbing immediately afterwards

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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Alistair Heaton said:
he could have also been wearing polarising sunglasses which stop you seeing the screens properly.
Click to expand...
Unless he was wearing sub-$10 glasses and the instruments were installed incorrectly, that shouldn't have been a problem. Polarized lenses are set to reduce glare from things like standing water, roadways, etc. (removing horizontally-polarized waves). Filters on instruments (LCD screens) are set to the same polarization, which should allow nearly 100% of the light through. Twist your head to the side next time you get in your car to verify... betcha that radio display darkens up nicely.

Dan - Owner
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I suspect that when he entered the clouds, he executed a 180 turn and followed his glide path back down to get back out of the cloud.
Unfortunately his return path was a little steeper than his original climb, and then someone left that darn mountain in the way.
If he had followed the same flight profile returning as going in, he may have almost made it.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
 
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IRstuff said:
He had GPS with moving map, so he should have known where he was.
Click to expand...

I don't thing anybody has argued that he didn't know where he was.

Knowing where you are and which way is up are two different things.
 
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I think he expected to fly high over the hills and not be heading into them.
 
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Efis displays already have a polorising screen built into them. You can't see much of what they display if you have them on.

It's a regulation that you should not wear polorising lenses while flying in easa land.
 
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