Tesla "autopilot" disengages shortly before impact 9

[MartinLe]

https://fortune.com/2022/06/10/elon...on-traffic-safety-autonomous-fsd-fatal-probe/

"On Thursday, NHTSA said it had discovered in 16 separate instances when this occurred that Autopilot “aborted vehicle control less than one second prior to the first impact,” suggesting the driver was not prepared to assume full control over the vehicle."

Where I a legislating body, I would very much demand that safety critical software needs to be as transparent as any other safety feature. Which would limit "AI"/machine learning applications in these roles.

 

[JStephen]

On the plus side, that means they can claim fewer wrecks under Autopilot.

 

[drawoh]

MartinLe,

There has to be an iron law of robot automobiles that says "Don't smash into stuff."

Is it practical for robot software to hand control back to a driver in an emergency? If the driver/passenger is not paying attention, they have a second or two to figure out why there is an emergency and work out what to do about it. Human drivers are only effective if they are actively controlling the car, and giving driving their full attention.

If a robot needs to hand control to a driver, it must ring bells to get the driver's attention, and continue to control the vehicle until the driver grabs the controls. If a robot runs into an unmanageable traffic situation, it must pull over and stop. The robot must drive cautiously so that it does not get into situations.

--
JHG

 

[LittleInch]

The sudden de activation of Auto pilots on ships and planes has been documented on many occasions - e.g. air France 447 and other shipping incidents where the supposed people in charge have a "low arousal" state when the AP is locked in and can easily panic when suddenly control reverts to them, often with poor outcomes.

Even if the driver was paying attention, they tend to wait until beyond the last possible moment to do anything as they expect the machine to do the business and rely nigh on 100% for it to do so.

My car has adaptive cruise control whereby it actually brakes if required. First time I let it do it was super scary and my foot hovered over the brake pedal. It definitely brakes later and harder than I would so I tend not to let it scare the living daylights out of me or risk getting rear ended. But those of a more trusting mind I can see just press the button and hey presto - the car is in control. My mind can now wander to anything I want and the car will take care of it. Until it doesn't.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[EdStainless]

Will this impact the Tesla practice of forcing customers to agree to non-disclosure in exchange for repairs?
I would expect the feds to say that if the work had anything to do with AutoPilot you are free to tell us about it.

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[Alistair_Heaton]

Autopilot on my 65 million dollar aircraft kicked out today on approach. Why I have no clue.

 

[LittleInch]

No clue?? Thought the FBW machines could tell you everything even if you need to download to find out.

Doesn't sound good if it didn't tell you why.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Nah, it's just sounds a charging noise to tell you it's given up and then you waggle the stick.

There was 6 aircraft in front and pretty sporty. It will have recorded the reason and the technicians will down load it tonight and if it's a hardware issue do Thier thing. Was fine on the way back.

 

[LittleInch]

At least you were fully awake on the approach presumably in daylight at this time of year.

Top of cruise on a dark moonless night might be a bit different?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Lou Scannon]

I dare say in an aircraft on autopilot control there is plenty left for the human operators to do to on approach to keep them fully engaged and aware of the situation. And beyond any instinct for self preservation and job continuity, they are morally and duty bound to do so. This type of scenario is exactly how such contraptions as Tesla "Autopilot" are NOT being marketed to the general public.

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz

 

[GregLocock]

I was given a demonstration of automatic emergency braking. We test this using an inflated car shaped balloon as a stationary target (our system is vision based). So I drive up behind the target, and, of course, hit the brakes. The other engineer says, yeah everybody does that the first time. With very conscious effort I was able to let the car do its stuff the second time.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[Alistair_Heaton]

Yes cruise 2am would have a significantly longer reaction time. But but it wouldn't do much.

The disconnect noise is loud. And no confusion what it is.

Approach your configuring the machine and managing the speed.

This machine it is extremely rare it does it. Q400 was weekly in horrible weather. It very passive as it gives you the aircraft in a trimmed condition. The q400 there was a bit of a jerk when the autopilot servos released.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, my 2021 GMC Terrain has two automatic braking features, 'Front Pedestrian Braking' and 'Automatic Emergency Braking'. Note that the 'Automatic Emergency Braking' works with what they call 'Forward Collision Alert'. Now I can't recall if either the 'Automatic Emergency Braking' or the 'Front Pedestrian Braking' has ever kicked in, but the 'Forward Collision Alert' has a couple of times. This happens if the vehicle in front of you suddenly slows or is stopped and you're approaching it. It projects a red light up onto the windshield, right where the driver's eyes are (should be) looking as well as shaking the driver's seat. Now this has only happened like in a parking lot where someone suddenly stops because they saw an open parking spot or because they see someone starting to back-out of a spot. I've always managed to stop in time (at least I assume it was me who applied the brakes) so everything has worked as expected.

As for when I'm driving at highway speeds, there's also what they call the 'Following Distance Indicator' that has three settings (Far, Medium, or Near) which are adjusted based on how fast you're moving. This has an indicator in the 'Driver Information Center' which displays and changes color depending on how close the vehicle in front of you is. This setting is also used by the 'Adaptive Cruise Control' for controlling the distance that is automatically maintained between you and the vehicle in front of you while in Cruise Control mode.

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[Alistair_Heaton]

That Dacia I am buying scores a very low ncap score due to it missing all these safety assist systems and seatbelt warnings in 3 rd row.

Scores ok in occupant crash tests.

I see it as a bonus not having to turn them off every time I start the car. Lane assist I find particularly annoying.

 

[JohnRBaker]

In my 2021 GMC Terrain, things like lane assist can be set so that all you get is a visual indication in Driver Information Display but without any audible warning, which isn't as annoying. Same with the blind spot warning, I only get the indication light in the side-view mirrors but again without any audible warning.

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[Alistair_Heaton]

Honestly I drive some of the most documented and tested auto pilots developed. I get tested on Thier failure modes at least every 6 months.

Would I trust a car autopilot? Would I hell.

 

[LittleInch]

In countries other than the US with their super long, flat straight freeways, Lane assist is the work of the devil, IMHO.

My Renault has it and I can stop it activating full stop, not every time. Thank god.

It is interesting that a lot of the incidents with the Tesla system seem to be responding to emergency vehicles parked or blocking the road or doing something strange. You would have thought by now that the systems would recognise blue and red flashing lights and wake the driver up and pass it over to him or her.

The routine boring stuff I'm sure its great at, but it is when something is going wrong or once in a blue moon type event that it struggles with it.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Red Corona]

Giving up control seconds before a serious unexpected collision is just not safe at all, if that's the system behaviour then (even if it isn't a deliberate attempt to dodge liability) it should not be legal on the public roads.

 

[IRstuff]

You would have thought by now that the systems would recognise blue and red flashing lights and wake the driver up and pass it over to him or her.

It's pretty simple, based on its previous behavior; the lane-following algorithm appears to be disjoint from the collision avoidance, and the latter is a complete piece of crap, while the former is simply stupid

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[JohnRBaker]

This should prove interesting:

Data Likely Shows Teslas On Autopilot Crash More Than Rivals

The government plans soon to release data on collisions involving vehicles with autonomous or partially automated driving system that will likely single out Teslas for a disproportionately high number of such crashes.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/united-states-tesla-vehicle-crashes_n_62a8d13be4b04a6173550d61

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