Things are getting better part 2

[btrueblood]

Greg...aren't g and h directly in conflict?

 

[JoshPlumSE]

I think g and h are complimentary... not in conflict.

(g) is related to how reasonable the corrections are for these ground based temperatures.
(h) is basically admitting that these ground based temperatures certainly need corrections to be useful.

My guess is that what Greg is getting at is that we now have the ability to have higher altitude (even satellite?) data that can give temperature data now that isn't influenced nearly as much by surface effects.

 

[GregLocock]

Yes. The problem with that is the air temperature at 10000 m (from memory) is NOT what makes your crops grow and what people feel.

But t is certainly what your useless climate models should be correlated to to a large extent.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Dik: Yes. The problem with that is the air temperature at 10000 m (from memory) is NOT what makes your crops grow and what people feel.

That is 100% besides the point. The temperature at 1000 m would be a more accurate measure of what temperatures really are because it's not effected by thermometers being located next to an exhaust vent or such. The problem with surface temperatures is that they MUST be corrected or they cannot be relied upon.

And, as soon as you introduce "corrections" you introduce the potential for fraudulent manipulation of the data to coincide with a political narrative.

 

[GregLocock]

It is somewhat interesting that when these corrections are made they increase the warming trend. How odd. Australia's BOM is very reluctant to release the raw data.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Greg Locock: Australia's BOM is very reluctant to release the raw data.

Exactly! Without the raw data, and / or the methodology for "correcting" the data you can never have any clarity about what's really happening with the temperature data.

Remember the the UK's CRU (climate research unit) who got in trouble in the 2005 / 2009 time frame because they were manipulating their data. And, this organization (to my knowledge) have never really released the basis upon which their temperature data records.

Climatic Research Unit email controversy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GregLocock]

Oh noes - there's been some changes in Antarctic sea ice

'What's alarming is how we're not alarmed anymore': Sea ice drops again

Scientists have found it difficult to capture longer-term changes to Antarctic sea ice as satellite records date from 45 years ago, but a recent reconstruction winds the record back to 1899.

www.abc.net.au

Oh diddums, photos from 1937 says we've got more than had then

A local bright spot among melting glaciers: 2,000 km of Antarctic ice-covered coastline has been stable for 85 years

A whaler's forgotten aerial photos from 1937 have given researchers at the University of Copenhagen the most detailed picture of the ice evolution in East Antarctica to date. The results show that the ice has remained stable and even grown slightly over almost a century, though scientists...

phys.org

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Here is an interesting article about a new type of plane being developed that will be more fuel efficient per passenger carried. A little off topic for this forum perhaps. But, I thought the article was great.... right up until the Delta airline folks talked about the development of this plane being an important part of their "net zero by ??" goal.

FWIW, this plane looks VERY similar to what my Aerospace Structures professor suggested would be a more efficient passenger plane would like. That was back in 1996-ish. We talked in that class about how this design wasn't really being researched much because the feeling is that passengers feel uneasy when boarding a "different" looking jet.

Delta, JetZero partner on futuristic widebody passenger jet

Delta Air Lines is assisting JetZero with its development of a sustainable blended-wing-body aircraft through a partnership with the aerospace startup.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[GregLocock]

Good for a transport plane, bad for a passenger plane, emergency egress is the issue.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

It would be a heck of a lot more comfortable though.

 

[SnTMan]

Nah. They'd figure out a way...

LOL