Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V 6

[dik]

thread1618-496010
thread1618-496614
thread1618-497017
thread1618-497239

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

When you said it is "time to move on", I was hopeful.

 

[dik]

Since you're here... you got your wish.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Here is a good example of the current level of sensationalism around climate change.

Never before seen:

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/bay-area-algae-kills-fish-17405314.php

Was actually seen in recent memory:

https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/massive-fish-die-off

 

[TugboatEng]

Hey, an article about the weather that doesn't mention climate change or AGW once:

https://www.severe-weather.eu/globa...-vortex-volcanic-cooling-winter-influence-fa/

An interesting read as it describes the effects of warming and cooling without all of the doom and gloom bias.

 

[dik]

Arctic Greening...

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...aid-content-the-greening-of-the-arctic-tundra

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

There will be lots of that stuff, Tug... it comes with the snakeoil peddlers... one of Reagan's educational advisors thought that an educated proletariat was a bad thing... and it looks like he got his wish.

https://theintercept.com/2022/08/25/student-loans-debt-reagan/

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

I think the inability of students to pay off their loan debt implies that they did not get an education.

 

[dik]

Maybe the education system has failed, too. Students are not normally the ones that set the curriculum. I suspect strongly that a country with a well educated population is far better off than the alternative. It shows something about the mentality of the politicians who do not benefit from a well educated population. It's not in their interests.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Another possible source of 'clean' power... don't know if it works or what the 'cradle to grave' footprint is, but if something like it can be used, it may help...

https://newatlas.com/energy/swel-cheapest-wave-energy/

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Aren't waves wind powered? Why add a middleman?

 

[SuperSalad]

Aren't waves wind powered? Why add a middleman?

Energy density amongst other reasons.

But this particular wave energy capture scheme looks a little problematic to me.

- Andrew

 

[dik]

Super... The methodology or due to wave action close to shore?

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SuperSalad]

I'd say the size might be the biggest (see what I did there?) thing. Scaling it up to something useful would take a massive surface area.

It always seemed to me that the simple vertical bobbing buoy type system would be the most feasible with an array spread out over an area similar to how wind farms are, but my knowledge in this arena is also very limited.

- Andrew

 

[TugboatEng]

Methodology. The more power they try to draw the more rigid the device will become. With any kind of load on it the device will behave like a board floating in the water. We all know that board doesn't heat up getting tossed around in the waves so there can't be any energy being absorbed.

We can reverse the process to help visualize the energy involved.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...jtAF6BAgDEAE&usg=AOvVaw0GkQSDZST0Fd9tS-2JVgo4

Here is a car driving on a floating bridge. It deflects much like the SWEL generator. How much additional power does the car use to drive across a floating bridge vs flat land?

 

[dik]

Maybe there's a balance, Tug? If there is a mass, moving up and down over time, there's power of some sort... maybe a matter or harnessing this? That's what made me think that there could be merit, but as Super... noted... not in my realm, either.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Yes, there is a balance and it's tipped in the wrong direction. These types of oscillating devices don't work because of a very simple equation, work = force × distance. If you increase the load on the system force goes up and distance goes down. The force and distance balance each other out and there is no work done.

 

[rb1957]

Of course there is some work being done ... but extracting that is difficult and creating a design to tolerate the extreme waves also difficult.

I'd rather look into tidal power, but now you're limited to locations with a large tidal race.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[SuperSalad]

If there is a mass, moving up and down over time, there's power of some sort... maybe a matter or harnessing this?

Ocean Power Technologies is the simplest one, like I was talking about with a vertical buoy, I know of since there's no hydraulics and it is a fairly self contained unit. The company still isn't ready for primetime (ie. not successfully deploying units), but I think the premise of their "Powerbouy" makes sense at least.

- Andrew

 

[TugboatEng]

Do the math. The heaviest navigation buoys weigh 10 tons, this looks to be a bit smaller but we'll give the benefit of the doubt.

(20,000 lbs × 3ft up) + (20,000 lbs × 3 feet down) = 120,000 ft*lbs of work done and this is REALLY generous as the buoy will be buoyant on the way down and the generator won't be generating electricity at the top and bottom when the buoy moving slowly. Also, the average strong swell is around 6 feet but the buoy has inertia and doesn't follow the full height of the swell (even without load) which is why I chose 3.

120,000 ft×lbs at let's say 6 times per minute for an average swell period is 720,000 ft×lbs/min or 21 horsepower.

In electrical terms that's 15kW. That's a really bad number and I made all of my assumptions in favor of a higher output and did not consider efficiency at all.

This is a scam just like the gravity battery.

There is a reason these systems use lots of mechanical parts such as ball screws and gears over strictly electrical means of generation, it's to create the appearance of work for the investors.