Things are Starting to Heat Up Part VI 10

[dik]

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So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Tomfh]

even on a per capita basis. They are far ahead of the game.

They are not. The US produces more renewable power per capita than China.

 

[dik]

Yes... the US does right now... but, if you look at the growth in the last 40 years China has increased their renewable power by a factor of 30 whereas the US has only increased it by a factor of 2.1. Forty years ago China's renewable power output was approx 10% of the US. As time progressed, China matched the total US renewable power output (not per capita) in 2012 and nearly doubled it by 2019, a short 7 years. They are rapidly moving ahead.

The crux if the matter is that all countries have to dramatically reduce their carbon footprint and at the same time have to dramatically increase their renewable power output.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

This was based on the rate of change...being roughtly 15x the US, or per capita roughly 3x.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

dik, I worry about you. There are statistics, then damn statistics. You seem always to look for ones glorifying China, and that makes me distrust and ignore your posts. Enough said.

 

[Tomfh]

This was based on the rate of change

Why not use recent rate of change when measuring CO2 emissions then? Oh, that's right, because in that instance it would make China look bad to use recent rate of change.

 

[dik]

I am using the most recent values I could find. Can you provide me with a more recent source?

I'm not glorifying China... it appears they are doing pretty good based on the numbers I've encountered. All data indicates that they have about 1/2 the per capita carbon footprint as the US. Their coal component is higher, but less than others. People say they are 'spiking' in coal usage, but I've not encountered any numbers. Even the recent post I made that shows them leading the pack for coal seems pretty flat for the last few years. I don't know what their future consumption brings. They seem to be leading in renewable resources... There's not much more to add. People focus on China's use of coal (a downright ugly carbon product) but it is only part of their footprint. The US far exceeds them with oil and gas usage. The data I'm using is the most recent I can find, and it is peer reviewed. If you or Tom have peer reviewed data that is more recent, please post me a link. I'd be happy to look at it.

I think they are maligned so that Western governments can use them as an excuse for not wanting to do anything. I see how fast the governments are acting on this real serious problem.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Not at all Tom, when it comes to renewable resources they are way out front at bringing them on line... as I noted in the last 40 years they have increased their on line renewable resources by a factor of 30, while the US has only increased their on line renewable resources by a factor of 2 in the same time period. They've done a lot in the last 40 years...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[GregLocock]

Well its a shame you can't find this using a search engine, perhaps yours is censored

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=33092

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[dik]

Incredible site... just to 2020 data. Can get data for a large number of countries and can download a *.csv file.

https://ourworldindata.org/emission...-do-coal-oil-gas-and-cement-emissions-compare

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Neat site, Greg... will take a closer gander... They do not appear to be a government organisation or academic one. Do they have any creds? From their site:

Contrary to other information, their coal usage seems to be going in the right direction... will take a closer look.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

and more from China.

total carbon from China 10.67 B tonnes for a population of 1490 million. and from the US is 4.71 B tonnes for a populalation of 331 million. This gives a per capita carbon footprint of 7.41 for China compared to one of 14.23 for the US, or again, about half... Just out of curiosity, should we be looking at the cumulative amount... the area under the curve? Dunno...



So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SwinnyGG]

I'm looking at the per capita values; these don't penalize a country for their large populations and are representative of individual usage.

Are you able to at least acknowledge that changing which type of statistic - cumulative value or per capita rate - you prefer to use, with the data you present always appearing to support the idea that China is good, appears disingenuous?

I've watched this debate now for weeks. Whatever your motivation is, from the perspective of an outsider who doesn't really care, you absolutely do not appear to be giving an impartial opinion based on data alone.

 

[TugboatEng]

Neat site, Greg... will take a closer gander... They do not appear to be a government organisation or academic one. Do they have any creds?

Neither of those two things contribute to credibility.

Contrary to other information, their coal usage seems to be going in the right direction... will take a closer look.

What are you looking at? Your graphs show China's coal consumption ratio is going down not because they're burning less coal, instead they're burning more oil and gas in addition to the coal.

 

[Tomfh]

Are you able to at least acknowledge that changing which type of statistic - cumulative value or per capita rate

If only there were just two. There’s a full suite of metrics being employed here:

*Total
*Per Capita
*Total increase
*Per Capita increase
*Total increase relative to 20 years ago
*Etc

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

[hokie66]

Leads me to coin a new acronym, CDS, Climate Derangement Syndrome.

Can be used interchangeably to mean Carbon Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Smoulder]

Per capita is nonsense. Getting back to WWI per capita is in striking distance but no per capita advocate would be happy because still 5x absolute.

 

[dik]

Per capita is not nonsense... it puts the focus on the individual contribution to climate change, and makes a correction for countries with large populations. India's carbon footprint is up there, and they are cited for being terrible. But based on their huge population their carbon footprint, per person, is about 1/10 that of the US.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

They also poop in the streets in India. I'd rather have a carbon footprint...

Dik, please give us examples of how you have reduced your per capita emissions as you have direct control over those. Otherwise please don't guilt us about our per capita emissions which we don't have direct control over.

 

[Smoulder]

Per capita by country isn't the individual. It's just a different measure by country. Do it by physical size of country for a better match to the actual problem.

Restated: make large populations take 'individual' responsibility for their large populations.

 

[dik]

It's a measure of the individual output... it not exact... Jimmy can be more resourceful than Fred... it's the best way to approximate the efficiency at controlling that. A resource concious country will have a smaller carbon footprint thanf one that isn't. It's also a meand of keeping track of how a country progresses with an increasing population and accommodates that.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik