Things are Starting to Heat Up Part VI 10

[dik]

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So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Smoulder]

A resource conscious country would look at the total. An irresponsible country would refuse to face up to its irresponsible population size.

For myself, I advocate for sustainable population size in Australia. Both political parties are against that though. So much for individual responsibility - not actually possible without true revolution.

 

[GregLocock]

You also need to correct for exported and imported emissions. Sanctimonious western countries that import Chinese steel and aluminium are driving up China's CO2 emissions (and GDP) while reducing their own CO2 emissions, yet they are the ones deriving the benefit from the material. Wind turbines and solar cells are good examples of this.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[rb1957]

@Smoulder ... "I advocate for sustainable population size in Australia" ... and what is a sustainable population ? and what do you do to the surplus ??

@greg ... and Australia should take responsibility for shipping coal to China. Sure, I understand the economic and political suicide that would mean (ie stopping mining coal).
But if Coal is the worst FF, then maybe the first step is to stop using it ? that is if we are serious about this CO2 "thing".

my personal take is ...
1) climate change is real, (of course it is, when has the climate been static ?)
2) climate change is way more complicated (than a single issue, like CO2),
3) Almost whatever we do about CO2 is unlikely to have much significant impact on climate (within centuries).
4) There are so many other ways that humans are impacting the environment, that we need to be equally aware of.
5) whether or not CO2 and FF are responsible for climate change, we should still be sensitive to our impact on the environment.
6) we can rearrange our lifestyles to reduce CO2, whether it has a real impact or not.
7) I don't want the government rearranging my lifestyle, overtly. I know they are manipulating things (with taxes and subsidies and ...).

I wonder if cavemen worried about climate change (as the glaciers melted) ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[TugboatEng]

Dik, what have you done to reduce your carbon footprint?

 

[dik]

About 30 years back, I quit driving for 12 years, prompted by my children, because it wasn't essential for the work I did. I used public transportation and GO Train to travel from Oshawa to Toronto. I had to take up driving again because my work status changed and I had to travel. I quit driving about 5 years back and use public transportation, or walk. I don't travel much, either nationally and internationally. I just recently (a month or two back) took my portable air conditioner down to the basement, not to be used again. I've very conscious of the use of plastics and plastic waste. Paper and paper waste. Nearly all my work is digital, not paper. When shopping, I use my backpack and four cloth shopping bags. All the bulbs in the house are LED, with the exception of 1. I also keep the house 'cool'; I don't like high temperatures anyway... not much, but it helps.

Manitoba is quite fortunate; nearly all our power is hydro, which is one of the greenest forms of power generation.

Most important is that my children and grand children have a similar approach and outlook', as noted in the tagline I copied from one of my son's eMails.

What do you do?'

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

rb... I like your list, and concur with everything but item 5. There is a clear correlation between climate change and the CO[sub]2[/sub] footprint. Mayby item 3... If we don't do anything, it could likely get a lot worse. Unfortunately, we have no idea of what our current actions will cause.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Added problems for some coastal areas:

""Many of these fast-subsiding coastal cities are rapidly expanding megacities, where... high demands for groundwater extraction and loading from densely constructed building structures, contribute to local land subsidence," the study says.

Sinking cities are not of themselves a result of climate change, but researchers said their work would give a better insight into how the phenomenon would "compound the effects of climate-driven mean sea-level rise".

More than one billion people will live in coastal cities at risk of rising sea levels by 2050, according to UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."

https://phys.org/news/2022-09-asian-coastal-cities-fast.html

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Based on last timing... the rotation has increased a tad, if you recall.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

About 30 years back, I quit driving for 12 years, prompted by my children, because it wasn't essential for the work I did. I used public transportation and GO Train to travel from Oshawa to Toronto.

That's a funny example. 30 years ago cars had strict emissions controls including catalytic converters. Fuel efficiency was also very high by then.

Instead, you chose to ride around in a diesel powered emissions exempt bus spewing particulates and nitrogen oxides. At the same time, I'll bet the bus was seldom full or I doubt you would be so willing to ride it. I ask, were you really reducing your footprint?

 

[dik]

They still polluted... even back then... they were much dirtier than today. Cars have improved, but not enought... many still have a big carbon footprint. Yes I do... because most bus traffic going into Toronto was reasonably full except at night, the GO Train was relatively empty. Public transportation is much better than using conventional cars and trucks. This will likely be the means of transport in the future, like it or not.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

@dik ... "rb... I like your list, and concur with everything but item 5" ... then you missed the point of 5). The point being whether or not you accept CO2 drives climate change, something I disputed in 3), we should not burn FFs like sailors on a weekend pass. Burning FFs has an impact on our environment and so we should be sensitive to this. Modifying our behaviour, as we have already for so many environmental things, should be expected. This is not stopping burning FFs, but as the price of energy raises then modifying to reduce our cost (and not to save the world ... as George Carlin said "don't worry about the world, it's doing fine").

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[GregLocock]

There's two ways of looking at that rb197. If I sell you a lump of coal then it is your responsibility for any CO2 created when you use it (The Smith and Wesson argument). Or, yes you could say that it is inevitable once it comes out of the ground. The latter encourages use of domestic coal, I suspect, rather than traded coal. This drives up CO2 emissions since Australian black coal in particular is better quality than most countries domestic deposits. S&W tends to depress the price of coal, as the user needs to recover the CO2 tax incurred, whereas the second argument increases it, as the miners have to pay the CO2 tax. So I suspect the second is a better policy.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[enginesrus]

dik, with all the carbon baloney, We have pointed out Co2 has zero to do with weather. Its all about high and low pressure area's. They no longer are moved or created by the past mechanisms, its now all artificial.
Please ask why.

 

[dik]

The high and low pressure areas are features caused by heating and cooling of the oceans and landmasses. CO[sub]2[/sub] has a big effect on these... Climate 101.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Sorry Greg... It's the guy that burns it (gun argument).

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

That's not climate 101. That takes some advanced indoctrination to link CO2 and pressures.

 

[dik]

Maybe 201, then... we learned about this, initially, in Grade school, with added info in Grade 10. It's not difficult... It's the heat produced created by the added CO[sub]2[/sub] insulation, not the CO[sub]2[/sub] directly.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

CO2 doesn't produce heat? The production of energy does produce heat regardless of CO2. Perhaps you do agree with the alternative climate change theory I posted earlier?

 

[dik]

I corrected that... it acts as an insulation layer that prevents heat from leaving... the good old sun does the rest. It just adds a little more insulation... just like people will have to do to their homes to prevent heat loss and heat gain.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

How is the heat created if it's not produced? We still need to do some work on your terminology.

Anyways, I wonder if this process still works?

https://www.realclearscience.com/bl...created_ice_in_the_desert_2000_years_ago.html

It shouldn't because of global warming.