Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X 13

[dik]

For earlier thread, see:

thread1618-496010
thread1618-496614
thread1618-497017
thread1618-497239
thread1618-497988
thread1618-498967
thread1618-501135
thread1618-504850
thread1618-506948

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So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Climate feedback loops:

"Dangerous climate feedback loops are increasing global warming and risk causing a permanent shift away from the Earth’s current climate, according to a new study.

Climate feedback loops are cyclical chain reactions that happen when one change triggers further changes, in a process that keeps on repeating itself. Some of these feedback loops drive down warming, but others amplify it.

Take Arctic ice, for example. Warming temperatures cause sea ice to melt, revealing the dark ocean water beneath. As dark surfaces absorb more heat than reflective surfaces like ice, the ocean warms and more ice melts.

A group of international scientists from institutions including Oregon State University, Exeter University and the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany, pored over climate literature to identify 41 climate feedback loops.

Of these, they found that 27 are driving up global temperatures, according to the study published Friday in the scientific journal One Earth, while just seven are helping to slow the pace of climate crisis."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/17/world/climate-feedback-loops-tipping-points-arctic-ice-intl

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BridgeSmith]

A group of international scientists...pored over climate literature to identify 41 climate feedback loops....they found that 27 are driving up global temperatures, according to the study published Friday in the scientific journal One Earth, while just seven are helping to slow the pace of climate crisis."

You would think "scientists" would know that the number of one or the other is inconsequential, but it's the scale of each that matters. Kinda like you can have dozens of small countries with little carbon output, like Switzerland, for instance, promise to cut carbon emissions, and it doesn't mean diddly squat, if China and India do nothing.

 

[dik]

China is a big part of the problem but they are far more advanced than the US for renewable power. They use too much coal, but that's only part of the fossil fuel problem. Their carbon footprint on a per capita basis is less than half the US (they have 5x the US population) and India's (on a per capita basis) is 1/10 the US. Better to clean up your own backyard first and quit using them as an excuse for not doing anything. Catch the following:

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BridgeSmith]

I'm not a proponent of any heavy-handed regulations to reduce CO2 emissions. My preferred approach is to have a strong private sector economy, capable of providing innovative and timely solutions to the challenges presented by whatever weather events occur, as they present themselves. We (and everyone else) has more immediate challenges than whatever a few degree temperature rise might bring, if it actually happens. Remember, it's only a trend, until it's not.

 

[dik]

I do not know what the future brings, but if voluntary doesn't work, it may come to that.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

"Dangerous climate feedback loops are increasing global warming and risk causing a permanent shift away from the Earth’s current climate, according to a new study.

Yup. Potential "feedback loops" are the bread and butter of those who want to "catastrophize" anthropogenic global warming. The alarmists realize that the idea of slowing warming like we have been just isn't scary enough and isn't enough of a catastrophe to energize public support against CO2 emissions. Ergo they really need these "feedback loops" to advance their political causes.

The far, far, far greater likelihood is that there will be similar "feedback" response from the climate that will partially negate the proposed warming. Greater plant growth (on land and in the oceans). What is this forum where I read that the effect of fungi on CO2 reduction isn't well understood and isn't generally included in climate models? Despite that it is responsible for up to 30% of the overall CO2 absorption on earth.

I still say that CO2 emissions should be reduced as much as we can in a reasonably cost effective way. But, the environmentalists / alarmists generally oppose the most common sense way of doing this while still providing sufficient energy for a vibrant economy.

 

[dik]

That too... you just don't know... and likely lots of snakeoil... and mistakes...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

There may not be a reasonable cost effective way; there could be some serious life style changes... we just don't know. What happens if the weather the southern US is experiencing becomes a weekly occurance?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

There may not be a reasonable cost effective way; there could be some serious life style changes... we just don't know. What happens if the weather the southern US is experiencing becomes a weekly occurance?

Nuclear energy is pretty cost effective. It just takes awhile to build it. If we spent 400 billion on building 20 new nuclear plants over the next 20 years to replace coal and fossil fuel plants then that would be a lot more cost effective (in $ per ton of CO2 emissions that were saved) than subsidizing rich people to buy Teslas or put solar panels on their roofs. And, it would provide more power for Air Conditioning so that people can survive hot weather.

 

[dik]

I hope we have 20 years... I'm not sure...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

I hope we have 20 years... I'm not sure...

Well, the media thinks that we should all be suffering by now because of climate change. Many Island nations should be completely under water. etc....

 

[GregLocock]

The biggest negative feedback loop in the world is clouds building up over the equator/tropics. This is self regulating, it happens every day, even over the Australian desert, and will expand and contract as needed. The biggest positive feedback is melting of arctic ice, which directly affects the albedo.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[dik]

I've always wondered what 45C in the shade was like... with the up and coming ENSO, Australia could get real interesting later this year. We'll have to wait and find out.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Maybe they jumped the gun... we'll have to wait and see... Turning it back may be a little more difficult.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

Some of those islands continue to grow. Maybe folks have forgotten how islands were formed.

 

[TugboatEng]

The "in the shade" temperature was always funny to me. It is a proclamation of ignorance on temperature, heat, and flux. Step discontinuities can't exist in nature so there can't be a significant temperature differential between a sunlit area and an adjacent shaded area. Then again, we don't feel temperature, we feel flux. When you're in the shade you have less radiation heat exposure while maintaining the same convection so it feels cooler despite the temperature being the same.

And this is where my distrust of "climate scientists" originates because every dang one lacks the most basic understanding of our physical world.

 

[Tomfh]

And this is where my distrust of "climate scientists" originates because every dang one lacks the most basic understanding of our physical world.

Exactly. E.g. we get told that a temperature change of 2C will cause "billions" of deaths. And yet humans live in temperatures from -20C to +50C. As individuals we experience temperature shifts of 40 degrees across the year, and 20 degree within a day. Yet somehow a gradual overall average increase of 2C over a century going to kill billions. It will be "catastrophe". It will be "insufferable".

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ve-in-insufferable-heat-within-50-years-study

 

[dik]

Concur... It was humour for Greg's comment about it being cloudy...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

We'll have to see if volcanic action can keep up with climate change, I guess...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BridgeSmith]

Some volcanic activity can be substantial enough to cause climate change.

Guess what also affects climate - clouds. Directly from NASA:

Low, thick clouds primarily reflect solar radiation and cool the surface of the Earth. High, thin clouds primarily transmit incoming solar radiation; at the same time, they trap some of the outgoing infrared radiation emitted by the Earth and radiate it back downward, thereby warming the surface of the Earth...The balance between the cooling and warming actions of clouds is very close although, overall, averaging the effects of all the clouds around the globe, cooling predominates.

So, more warming = more evaporation = more clouds = global cooling. Hmmm...

As GregLocock wrote, it self-regulating, like many other of Earth's processes.

Remember the hole in the ozone layer? Haven't heard much about it recently, have you? The only reason we heard anything about it to begin with is that when we first had satellites to monitor it, it was expanding. Then it started shrinking. Why? The same radiation it blocks, when it does get through, produces a reaction with oxygen, turning it into...you guessed it...OZONE! All that panic, leading to regulations and bans of refrigerants that actually work, and outlawing hairsprays, didn't do diddly squat - the system corrected itself.