Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XI 10

[dik]

For earlier threads, see:
thread1618-496010
thread1618-496614
thread1618-497017
thread1618-497239
thread1618-497988
thread1618-498967
thread1618-501135
thread1618-504850
thread1618-506948
thread1618-507973


-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[CWB1]

Ok, so how has this new law (which contains more holes than a block of swiss cheese to let operators out if they meet certain easy-to-meet conditions, by the way) which is likely to get modified based on the fact that technology isn't really ready to meet the demand it creates, 'catastrophically' impacted your daily life?

Funny bc everybody in diesel development's been hearing that same nonsense for 20 years. Trillions in lost revenue later, the market for restored antique trucks and equipment went from nonexistent to thriving bc we allowed politics to get ahead of the natural, capitalistic development of technology.

The reality of being an automotive engineer stateside today is that jobs are disappearing due to electrification, so it indeed is having a "catastrophic" impact for many.

 

[SwinnyGG]

natural, capitalistic development of technology

Got kids? What them breathing heavy smog?

Left unfettered, capitalistic development of technology would've resulted in all of us driving around in cars filled with leaded gas and no cats. They'd be cheaper probably, and make more power probably, but would that be worth the impact on the quality of the air you breathe 24 hours a day?

By definition, capitalism does not always progress on the path that's in the best interest of society at large. Catalytic converters, seatbelts, airbags - and a dozen other things - became widespread because they were mandated, not because the market demanded them universally. Would we be better off if everyone drove a '64 Nova?

There are times where the market needs a nudge, in the best interest of society as a whole.

Can't wait for everyone to call me a communist globalist, or whatever.

 

[dik]

This could be interesting. Beating the record may become more and more frequent. This time, it appears we beat it by a 'bunch' for this time of year.

"Scientists are investigating why the oceans are so hot right now but say that climate change is making the seas warmer as they absorb most of the heating from greenhouse gas emissions.

"The more we burn fossil fuels, the more excess heat will be taken out by the oceans, which means the longer it will take to stabilize them and get them back to where they were," explains Dr Burgess.

The new average temperature record beats one set in 2016 when the naturally occurring climate fluctuation El Niño was in full swing and at its most powerful."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66387537

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SwinnyGG]

Records that only go back 40 years need to be evaluated very carefully before you claim a significant trend based on the data they provide.

 

[dik]

Concur... some items of note. Because of the scale, the temperature range is approx 0.5 degrees and the increase is nearly half that; the most recent increase appears to be an anomalytrend; and 40 years is just a blip in geologic time.

The severe weather events seem to be on the increase, or our ability to report them has improved. There are a lot of unknowns. Where normal geologic events generally take millennium, we appear to be doing this in decades... Just something to ponder...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

You do remember that there was a volcanic eruption recently that injected unprecedented amounts of moisture into the upper atmosphere?

 

[dik]

...and just contributes to the problem?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Perhaps the weather anomalies are related to that eruption and not so much CO2.

 

[SwinnyGG]

...and just contributes to the problem?

What's he's saying is that the Tonga eruption is causing a noticeable effect, and that it's completely beyond human control.

Why it's OK to 'trust the science' on a volcanic eruption and not on how ocean energy balance works is another issue, but on the topic of the eruption he's correct.

Early evaluations have estimated that the Tonga eruption would contribute to a temperature rise of roughly 0.03 [sup]0[/sup]C, approximately 30% of the temperature change expected over the next decade, with that effect to last as long as 5 years (the expected amount of time it could take for the emitted water vapor to condense back out of the atmosphere). So it's a fairly significant event. A large and roughly instantaneous release of that much water vapor is also going to impact weather locally, with effects that spread over time. Those effects are very hard to predict, so we don't know exactly what they are or will be over the next few years - but they won't be zero.

While it's impossible to completely separate the effects of the eruption from other effects, it's very significant in the grand scheme, and the human race had nothing to do with it.

 

[TugboatEng]

Why it's OK to 'trust the science' on a volcanic eruption and not on how ocean energy balance works is another issue

Water has hugely more greenhouse effect than CO2, especially when it's injected high into the atmosphere. Water absorbs nearly all wavelengths while CO2 only absorbs a narrow spectrum. Yes that narrow spectrum is in the infra-red which we feel as heat. But, all wavelengths eventually become heat as they bounce around and lose energy. There is quite a bit more light energy in the visible spectrum than infra-red.

The science clearly isn't settled. We wouldn't need climate scientists if it were settled. I would personally like to see some quantification of the effect with regards to heat.

I would really like to see a quantification of CO2 cost of renewables. I personally feel that many renewable energy pathways at this time will increase CO2 production, electric cars being an example.

I do think we should work to reduce pollution and the most effective way to reduce pollution is to reduce consumption. Meanwhile, CO2 is not a pollutant.

 

[dik]

I disagree... in excess amounts, CO[sub]2[/sub] is definitely a pollutant. In small amounts, it's a respiratory stimulant.

to pollute (Oxonian) "to add dirty or harmful substances to land, air, water, etc. so that it is no longer pleasant or safe to use"

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

By that same logic oxygen is also a pollutant.

 

[dik]

See the definition...

In excess amounts, Oxygen is probably not good for you, either, and hence a pollutant....

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Water in excess amounts would also then be a pollutant. Remember this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_parody

Nope. CO2 doesn't do any harm to any person on it's own. In fact, it's necessary for life on earth. Without CO2, almost all plant life would die out and animals would starve to death.

The only way it harms a person or animal is actually HARMED by CO2 is if it is sooooo abundant that it crowds out all the oxygen that we breathe.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Any reasonable definition of pollutant cannot include CO2. Any attempts (by the EPA) to define it this way are anti-science BS intended solely as a means to gain more and more government control over our energy production / consumption.

Any substance that makes the environment dirty or contaminated is a pollutant. Soot is an example of an air pollutant, and chemical pollutants can make their way into the water supply. Trash that doesn't quickly biodegrade is one kind of pollutant—think of plastic bags floating around in the ocean.

 

[dik]

In excess, it most certainly does in high concentrations... That was the point that was being made. In addition, it promotes climate change.

"Studies conducted in the 1980s showed that there were 89 deaths per year in the USA alone, during work in confined spaces; 22% occur during rescue efforts [4]. A number has not decreased since. A recent study of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) in 2015 still estimated the number of deaths involving confined spaces to be around 90 per year. Unfortunately, the number of killed rescuers has risen to two thirds of those deaths [5].

Carbon dioxide does not only cause asphyxiation by hypoxia but also acts as a toxicant. At high concentrations, it has been showed to cause unconsciousness almost instantaneously and respiratory arrest within 1 min"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380556/

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SwinnyGG]

I would personally like to see some quantification of the effect with regards to heat.

I would really like to see a quantification of CO2 cost of renewables. I personally feel that many renewable energy pathways at this time will increase CO2 production, electric cars being an example.

All of this information you claim to want is freely available to you.

That you continue to not research anything and form bad opinions based on incorrect intuition is no one's fault but your own.

 

[TugboatEng]

I tried using Google. That's how I came up with the boundary layer link above but that's it. Do you have any other examples of articles that discuss heat?

 

[dik]

Good article on transportation and carbon footprint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi7U6Cj_2aI

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Uncharted territory...

"A series of climate records on temperature, ocean heat, and Antarctic sea ice have alarmed some scientists who say their speed and timing is unprecedented.

Dangerous heatwaves in Europe could break further records, the UN says.

It is hard to immediately link these events to climate change because weather - and oceans - are so complex.

Studies are under way, but scientists already fear some worst-case scenarios are unfolding.

"I'm not aware of a similar period when all parts of the climate system were in record-breaking or abnormal territory," Thomas Smith, an environmental geographer at London School of Economics, says.

"The Earth is in uncharted territory" now due to global warming from burning fossil fuels, as well as heat from the first El Niño - a warming natural weather system - since 2018, says Imperial College London climate science lecturer Dr Paulo Ceppi."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66229065

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[GregLocock]

NASA estimates the water vapour mass in the atmosphere has increased by 6% due to the volcano. Water vapor is half the greenhouse effect, which raise the Earth's surface temp by 33 deg C. So a 6% shift of half is about 1 deg C of possible warming. On the other hand there were some aerosols which will bring it back down.. The BBC of course wants to ignore this as it is off-message. (Edited the spike due to the volcano is about 1 part in 16)



Cheers

Greg Locock


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