Tourist submersible visting the Titanic is missing 101

[Murph 9000]

Dropping the skids is a bit like ejecting the warp core. You really don't want to do it, but if that's the best or only chance of survival, you do it and deal with the problem it creates.

 

[IRstuff]

The Titanic was the middle of a 3 ship Olympic-class, Olympic, Titanic, Britannic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic-class_ocean_liner

The latter ship, two years younger, was sunk during WWI, so didn't do a whole lot better, although obviously surviving its maiden voyage (is that still PC?)

While the Olympic was the most long-lived, it was not without incidents; interestingly, the future Captain Edward Smith of the Titanic was likewise commanding the Olympic in a collision with another ship that left gashes in the Olympic. So, rather than the Titanic being cursed, perhaps it was Smith who was cursed.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[MechinNC]

I wonder a bit about osmosis on that laminate. 5-6000psi is a LOT of pressure and wonder if water can get pushed into the laminate at that pressure.

Also where the Ti end caps were glued to the CF cylinder ends. Osmosis there? The machined ends of the CF cylinder are particularly vulnerable. At that pressure things (water, glue), are bound to move in unpredictable ways. As in migrating into into laminate.

No replacement for repeated deep dive tests, either in the ocean or pressure tank, depending on coat.

Test a prototype, preferably to failure at end of tests. Compare real world results to those calculated. If close, build a new one and go diving.

Do not like composites in heavy compression. Behavior in that realm is not simple. Not my line of work, but know enough to throw up the red or yellow flag.

 

[Murph 9000]

There was also a nurse named Violet Jessop who was on Olympic for the collision that could have sunk her, and on both Titanic and Britanic when they sank.

 

[sgw1009]

One passenger's account of his experience with Titan.

https://youtu.be/O-8U08yJlb8

 

[IRstuff]

I wonder a bit about osmosis on that laminate. 5-6000psi is a LOT of pressure and wonder if water can get pushed into the laminate at that pressure.

That's unlikely, since it's not a pure carbon fiber; it's impregnated with resin, which is what holds the carbon fiber together.

Now, one interesting possibility is that the cylinder separated from the titanium end rings, since the one photographed appears completely devoid of any adhesive residue or remnants of the carbon fiber cylinder.

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[Murph 9000]

That's unlikely, since it's not a pure carbon fiber; it's impregnated with resin, which is what holds the carbon fiber together.

Osmosis is a common problem with fibreglass marine hulls. It certainly is a problem for GRP, I believe it's still a concern for epoxy kevlar, and I certainly wouldn't want to rule it out for epoxy carbon fibre.

https://www.boatsurveyor.net/boat-surveyor-osmosis-explained/

 

[sgw1009]

Scale Model Test Implosion:

https://youtu.be/BQGDwE3yMb0

 

[sgw1009]

Here is a very interesting New Yorker article:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-re...submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen

 

[LittleInch]

Superb article.

Really goes into the thinking behind it and how Rush wouldn't listen to highly informed criticism or judgement and how they worked hard to work outside the rules and regulations. And was willing to rapidly go legal to silence opposition to his plans.

I do hope this all comes out in the open in the differing reports which are being mooted, but something tells me certain parties and people will just clam up.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[drawoh]

IRstuff,

With Edward Smith long gone, Olympic rammed and sunk a lightship in[ ]1934. I believe she rammed and sunk a U-boat during WWI, although that was deliberate.

--
JHG

 

[SnTMan]

LittleInch, good article yes, but not superb, IMO. Can you imagine modern journalism foregoing gratuitous use of a certain F**r letter word? Me neither.

Top men, I say

Regards,

Mike

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[Tomfh]

and how Rush wouldn't listen to highly informed criticism or judgement and how they worked hard to work outside the rules and regulations

Kind of a moot point by now.

 

[LittleInch]

Tomfh,

I don't think so. It's important to know and understand how this was allowed to happen and try and plug the gaps where possible. And act as a warning to others about what happens when you don't follow well established rules and think you can do it better, cheaper, faster using unproven materials which you then don't test or allow to be examined by more experienced professionals.

So in the future "You're behaving like Stockton Rush" might act as a brake on someone else. Maybe.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[TigerGuy]

That puts a whole new meaning in "Rushing into production"

 

[JStephen]

I figured with a disaster like this, the people remaining at Oceangate have two options:
-Preserve all correspondence, calculations, etc. for the inevitable investigations
-Or run the paper-shredders 24 hrs/day, Enron-style, or the digital equivalents (running the phone through the washing machine, etc).
So I'm kind of curious which is actually happening.
Rush gets mentioned in all the publicity for engineering, but I think one of those videos showed a younger guy there while they were winding the carbon fiber hull, and that guy was "engineering director" or something of the sort. So presumably, he's the one in the hot seat now.

 

[waross]

This design is perfectly safe.
I'll stake my life on that!

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[IRstuff]

Not sure it's even that much of a satire. Rush seemed to have a mistaken belief that "safety concerns" were simply a means to stifle (his) innovation(s). For someone who supposedly was an aeronautical engineer, he obviously mislearned in college and at his real jobs. It's unfortunate he killed other people proving himself seriously wrong and misguided.

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[1503-44]

I told you he wasn't presenting the game controller with the proper attitude.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Murph 9000]

One of the things that really puzzles me for someone who was an aerospace engineer and an aviator, is the backwards or mismatched controls on one of the dives. It's absolutely standard in aviation to verify free and correct operation of the control surfaces in the pre-flight inspection; why was there not some sort of controls check before each dive? It's also worrying that someone could connect the wires incorrectly without that getting picked up as part of the maintenance procedures (another area where aviation tends to double check everything before signing off on the work).

Something else that bugs me about the game controller (and any other "off the shelf" electronics in there) is the suitability for the marine environment. It's likely constantly damp and a little salty inside the sub. That's not really the normal environmental conditions for a game controller, and one of the reasons why good quality marine electronics tend to have a reassuringly expensive price tag.