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Train crash in Ohio 19

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spsalso

spsalso

Electrical
Jun 27, 2021
943

Note the mention of extremely low temperatures.

I suspect that is the cause*.

And I suspect the train crew should have been told to operate at restricted speed, because of that possibility.

And/or the trackage should have been installed taking into account these temperatures.



spsalso


*I'm talking about the effects of rail contraction at cold temperatures. A rail joint could have failed. Or rail could have been pulled up on a curve. I suppose a rail could even have snapped.

Besides restricted speed, there's also the running of an inspection car ahead of the train.
 
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@ TubboatEng:

It gets more interesting. Attached is a report on dioxins obtained by the State of Indiana:
Client Project #: Waste Sampling - OH Derailme ... This report presents the results from the analyses performed on three samples submitted by a representative of the State of Indiana.
Click to expand...

Were these samples taken in the State of Indiana, roughly 250 miles away from East Palestine? If so, the results (pg 25: max of 700 ppt) would imply evacuating half of Ohio and half of Pennsylvania (/sarc). If the soil was sampled in East Palestine, OH, why aren't these samples being submitted by Ohio, Pennsylvania or federal agencies like FEMA, EPA or NTSB? Why only 3 samples? Where were they taken? How far from the derailment? Many questions.


P.S. Please note the sarcasm tag.
 
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Steve Mould had an interesting video today It's about acoustic cameras and imaging. What's germane is the possibility of using such cameras to "hear" and image bearing noise as a train passes, and could therefore potentially detect bearings that are starting to fail.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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I suspect acoustic sensing is a very good idea. It could possibly be located at the same location as the hot box detectors--no need for additional "infrastructure", just bolt on another type of sensor.

Yes, you would keep the same spacing as is used currently.


spsalso
 
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Is this different from Fourier spectrum analysis commonly used for condition based monitoring? Steel rails are an excellent conductor or sound. One would think accelerometers on the rail could produce similar measurements while covering much larger areas of track from a single measurement point.
 
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I suspect if you're using air-transmitted sound, rather than rail, that it's easier to pick out which bearing is the naughty one.


spsalso
 
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Sensing through air doesn't sound much more effective. If it's measuring diffraction caused by pressure waves one would think the pressure waves caused by the truck moving through air or wind would also cause a lot of "interference".

Medium speed diesel engines used to have fusible links on their connecting rods. If the bearing gets above 250F a solder joint melts and a metal rod pops out of the connecting rod and strikes a valve which dumps control air to shut the engine down. No electronics necessary. It's not so indifferent that the old Square D style overload heaters in motor controllers.

Then again, direct temperature measurement is so inexpensive nowadays, why do it any other way?
 
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Sensing through air is directional and local. Thus you know immediately which bearing is of interest. You can compare that one with hot box data (from the same location). Once the train is stopped, the trainman knows exactly where to look.

Rail transmission will not do that.

The sound thing is nice because the bearing doesn't even HAVE to be hot.

The problem with "direct temperature measurement" is that that you need a power source to run it and transmit the data. Certainly doable. Even fun to design. Then we start looking at cost-benefit. Compare the cost with adding acoustic detectors.


spsalso
 
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That's why I brought up the fusible link no power. Heck, you could have it pop up a flag that a camera then sees. It needs to be a flag or something that can be protected until it's needed to indicate otherwise it may get too dirty to be seen. A spare fusible link can be carried onboard and replaced in the field in the event of a false indication.
 
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With all the noise level that a train makes, it has to have an incredible filter to detect these small noises... else they may be at a frequency that can separate the different noise.

By the time it heats up, it may be too late to stop the train.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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The acoustic cameras have FFTs. The current CONOP is to have they basically a trackside, and the FOV of the camera would capture no more than one or two cars at a time, do their FFTs and identify whether there are any anomalies. I suspect we're still many years away from a practical product and they may need to be paired with co-registered thermal cameras. That would be a substantially more expensive thing than upgrading hotboxes.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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Acoustic detectors would be good for other classes of defect though. Wheelflats (which play merry hell with the infrastructure if you carry on running with them) are a good example.

A.
 
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I small solar panel, and electronics package, with bearing sensors is really not that hard. Use a short range transmitter to a receiver on a hot box detector, and you are set.
 
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Solar panels have been working quite well on trains that are in dedicated service for one "owner".

But most freight cars in the US are designed for interchange, and might end up anywhere they're needed. And may need maintenance anywhere they're at. By anyone who is willing to attempt it.

You will likely need a plug-and-play (if'n it don't work, plug in a new one, dude) cheap-as-dirt (theft) highly reliable and very sturdy bit of hardware.


spsalso
 
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This is not going to end well...

Hours Of Video Deleted In Ohio Train Derailment

Footage was overwritten when the train went "immediately back in service following the accident," according to a federal agency investigating the incident.


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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Aside from the 20/5 mentioned, there is almost no hard info in that article.

Sebastian, as a trained and professional reporter, simply restated NTSB's announced statement.

Must have taken at least 5 minutes of his time to produce it. True dedication.


spsalso
 
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I think it's ignorant that the author would expect a company to keep an undamaged engine that was not a cause in the derailment out of service for the duration of the NTSB investigation which we all know typically last over a year.
 
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Not 'ignorant', but 'naive'.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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