Train crash in Ohio 19

[spsalso]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ohio-train-derailment-causes-big-fire-evacuations/

Note the mention of extremely low temperatures.

I suspect that is the cause*.

And I suspect the train crew should have been told to operate at restricted speed, because of that possibility.

And/or the trackage should have been installed taking into account these temperatures.



spsalso


*I'm talking about the effects of rail contraction at cold temperatures. A rail joint could have failed. Or rail could have been pulled up on a curve. I suppose a rail could even have snapped.

Besides restricted speed, there's also the running of an inspection car ahead of the train.

 

[spsalso]

"What is the restricted area?"

Approximately, the area of the smashed up and burning cars, plus what ever safe distance the fire department (or whoever is making the decision) designated. I believe they even arrested someone for entering.

The NTSB guy said his people couldn't enter the crash site, and had to use drones instead. They also must have trekked up the track and found a boo-boo. That will frequently be suddenly appearing scrape marks on the railroad ties.



Also of interest is that the vinyl chloride is going to be emptied from the tank cars:

"The process we’re going to do today, we’re going to place a small shaped charge, it’s going to create a hole about 2 to 3 inches into the tank car. This will allow the material to come out of the tank car, it’ll go into a pit and trench that we have dug and set up for this operation. Inside that trench will be flares … That will then light off the material..."


spsalso

 

[dik]

sorry... I didn't realise it was the area of the crash site. Uptrack being the area 'behind' the crash?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Shaped charge? Seems like it would be safer just simply shoot a few holes in it.

 

[spsalso]

Maybe the wrong choice of word. I was after a term that described trackage that had been traversed by the train before the crash site.


spsalso

 

[dik]

Thanks... didn't know. Not a rail guy, but like to understand...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Its easier and far safer to use a copper plasma shape charge drill.

Its on a tripod aimed perpendicular to the surface a produces a lovely little predictable hole exactly where you want.

I suspect tug given a day with a Sapper you would absolutely love what you can do with bang. The big spectacular explosions are to be honest boring anyone can do that. Bit of a fart and two bits of metal fall apart after 5 mins work by someone that knows what they are doing with no ego and just want a job done is just magic in action. I was never in that league but its frustrating sometimes not being able to use it for certain jobs and having to take a higher risk because its not available.

 

[spsalso]

I know less than nothing about Twitter and how it works, but I just saw a doorbell video of one of the trucks of one of the cars flaming exuberantly:

https://twitter.com/TammyTsai365/status/1622029307257159684

Like I said, the above may or may not work.

I would guess a failed bearing, rather than an axle. There was a hot box detector 20 miles before the crash site that apparently alerted to a possible problem. Very near the crash site, there was another that said there very definitely was a problem. And then the train crashed.

It's not clear to me where the doorbell camera was, other than being between the two detectors.



spsalso

 

[FacEngrPE]

spsalso's video shows the heat resulting on the axle running on the bearing housing (or perhaps the bogie frame). Eventually either the axle will cut it's way through the bogie or the end of the axle will be removed. Either-way once one axle looses it's connection to the bogie, The game is over.

There are no modern cars having plane journal bearings, so we may have a rare roller bearing failure.
title-49 section-215.115 Roller Bearing Periodic inspection Requirements
Timken's service limits for some of it's rail car axle bearings attached.

 

[FacEngrPE]

NTSB Derailment of Norfolk Southern Freight with Hazardous Materials Release So far a B-role -, and the 2/4 briefing.

 

[spsalso]

One of the two main tracks was put back into service yesterday evening.

Norfolk Southern statement:


"On the morning of February 7, Norfolk Southern and its contractors were allowed to begin clearing the site where a derailment occurred on February 3 in East Palestine, Ohio. As of today, all cars have been cleared from the site. Service has been restored to mainline 2.

While this allows for a route through the site, customers should expect availability delays of at least 24 hours on shipments moving between Cleveland and the Northeast via Pittsburgh, PA due to residual congestion and continued efforts to restore service to mainline 1."



spsalso

 

[CWB1]

I suspect tug given a day with a Sapper you would absolutely love what you can do with bang. The big spectacular explosions are to be honest boring anyone can do that. Bit of a fart and two bits of metal fall apart after 5 mins work by someone that knows what they are doing with no ego and just want a job done is just magic in action.

Yup. My grandfather was a master with dynamite thanks to frequent practice on the farm. He dug ditches and ponds, removed stumps and "widow-maker" trees, split logs both for firewood and to fit his sawmill, made pavers and tons of smaller fill rock for building road, etc. Unfortunately he didnt trust others enough to pass along his knowledge or grandfathered ag blasting license.

 

[JohnRBaker]

When I was in officer training for the Army Corp of Engineers, one of our sergeants once explained how we were lucky to be in the Corp since we'd always have cold beer, because we had portable generators, and that we'd never have to dig foxholes, because we had C4.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

Aftermath?

https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/02/...palestine-ohio-with-rivers-full-of-dead-fish/

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[1503-44]

No, sounds like the beginning.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Factoter]

EPA has published Norfolk Southern derailment “manifesto”

https://response.epa.gov/sites/1593...E - derail list Norfolk Southern document.pdf

FYI: No updates on status of Malt Liquor

 

[Factoter]

Re: NTSB unusually early statement, quoted above by spsalso: “the three-member train crew”
. . . As it turns out, Norfolk was one of three major lines to announce trials of one-man crews for large trains such as this. Currently they can operate a two-member crew, per the December ‘22 contract just passed by Congress, and this particular train may have been technically two-member crew, with an additional trainee making three. One catch22 from the new railroad contract is provision to allow non-union shops to maintenance the cars, so some feathers are seriously getting ruffled here that an apparent bearing failure could cause this.

 

[spsalso]

Not "manifesto", but "manifest" (a description of the contents of a shipment).

NS has provided this document to EPA.



I don't see how the size of the crew would have made a difference in this crash. A one-person "crew" would not have made it any worse than it was.


spsalso

 

[Factoter]

Spsalso, the question of crews is a discussion point of the Unions, as the railroad is ready to go one-man, with automated systems. This means less jobs for unions. The Railroads are strongly backing the safety of automated systems, but the unions are arguing the three-member crew safety-card with equal force, comparing the responsibility threshold to commercial aircraft. These are perhaps simply talking points, but talking points the government has taken sides on, by legislating one-member crews.

 

[dik]

More bad news...

https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/02/...0-million-us-citizens-without-drinking-water/

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

You would have to wonder about stories from a European 'news' site reporting on an event in Ohio. I don't think any of the responsible local or national news agencies in the US have published such sensational 'news', including contamination of the Ohio River. The catastrophe is bad enough without irresponsible reporting.