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Lahaina, Maui, Hawaii 40

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3DDave

3DDave

Aerospace
May 23, 2013
10,688
Another wild fire sweeping through a residential area - it leads me to wonder if exterior sprinkler systems, particularly for roofs, would be sufficient to slow the progress of such fires.

I noted a multi-story apartment or hotel that was generally intact, suffering some interior fire which the sprinkler system may have stopped. The roof was untouched simply from height and the exterior which appeared to be brick - likely the windows or their frames failed in the heat. It was surrounded by ash.

As they are on the ocean the supply of water suitable to the use is well available as long as power for pumps is available. Besides electric pumps, pumps directly driven by diesel and the possibility of adding fire boats pumping water to the system seems worth considering. It's along the ocean so additional salt water should be more acceptable than fire.
 
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The electric field and brush motor is hardly a thing so banning petrol powered mowing equipment is the same as banning mowing equipment.

The elevation of California is irrelevant. The highlands don't grow much grass.

The US Forest Service did find benefit to raking:

 
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Electric mowers are gaining in popularity.
Larger lawns such as golf courses and parks are typically cut by gang mowers pulled by diesel tractors.


--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
 
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Yes, a heavy battery powered motor causes too much soil compaction.

The climate opportunists are always first to jump but maybe we should consider the fact that the military does not seem to be fully mobilized to bring supplies to an island. Instead, the federal government has decided to give one time cash payments to residents because that will help them secure supplies on an island.
 
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O'ahu is nearly 600 square miles. Lahaina has about 4 square miles burned.

The people need money to pay for housing and food and to buy replacements for clothing and other items. The feds aren't going to bring housing with electricity and water and sewer service that is better than the former residents can get to elsewhere in Hawaii.

There is a one time cash payment in addition to funding through FEMA. It is typical that states are both more cognizant of the needs of their people and directly responsible to the residents so the state government is in charge of disaster relief. The Feds are typically setting up the funding which the state may not have financing in place to manage.

Other parts of the federal response are here:
 
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Lahaina is on Maui.

Anyway, Tug, the issue is not insufficient supplies - it's thousands of people with no money, and no worldly possessions to trade for their next meal.
 
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SwinnyGG said:
Lahaina is on Maui.
Click to expand...

So it is - I don't know the islands well enough to have guessed wrong. Perhaps O'ahu was mentioned as supplying relief? Not sure how I screwed that up.
 
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There are suddenly 13,000 homeless people on an island of 160,000. $700 cash is a slap in the face, not assistance.

The looters are stealing food and clothing. That's very unlike previous disasters...


Feed them gruel, house them in tents, do something to get through the initial shock.

Very reminiscent of the Afghanistan pullout.

"No comment".
 
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Helped with cash?
Helped with food may be more to the point.
The authorities did not do very well warning the people about the approaching fire.
I doubt that they have suddenly become more competent when it comes to relief support.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
 
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Food <> roof, transport, telephone, etc

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
 
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I made the comment about the USFS finding benefit to raking but then this article popped up saying high intensity fires are historically normal and that brush clearing practices should only be used near population areas and to not try to reduce the intensity of the fire overall.

 
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That is generally true. We used to mow only inside the compressor station fence. About 100 ft clear from buildings.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
 
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Some good news of sorts...

60 people found holding-up in a house that wasn't destroyed by the fire but were cut-off without phone or cell service:

Miracle in Maui: SIXTY wildfire survivors were rescued from inside single house as death toll climbs to 106 and 1,300 remain unaccounted for


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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As bad as the Lahaina fire was, it has a ways to go yet to reach the level of fatalities seen in the 1871 fire in Peshtigo, Wisconsin, where 800 people died when a forest fire swept through the town on the shores of Green Bay. In total, over 1,200 people died when this single blaze destroyed more than a million acres of timber and 17 towns, with Peshtigo being the largest:

In Maui, echoes of the deadliest U.S. wildfire: The 1871 Peshtigo blaze


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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5yrs ago I was thinking of buying a house higher up on the mountain, but got to looking at all the tall (protected) pines all over the property, on top of the house, and the one, hilly, curvey, narrow dirt road egress. 1 plus 1 came together and I did not buy it. I later realized it would be considerably colder in winter at the 5000 ft elevation too. Today there is a large fire just on the south side of the ridge that has been ongoing for 3 days. Around 7600 people have been evacuated so far, fortunately no injuries.

Last month on La Palma, well north of the 2021 volcanic eruption, but inside the caldera national park.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
 
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They contribute, Tug... but the real 'culprit' is climate change.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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Screenshot_20230817-221832_Brave_ijhnt9.jpg

This one was caused by an illegal occupier of a property in which he stored tons of cardboard in an unsafe manner.
Started the fire. Going to jail.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
 
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Climate change we can argue, but it sure seems to me to be a failing of the schools to teach life skills.
Then again the Catholic church is still standing. Maybe the people should have stayed there.

In Florida, most utility poles are made of concrete, which would resist fire damage. They use concrete also to avoid ground rot on wood poles. Seems Hawaii could do the same.

No cell phone service? Can you hear me now. Cell phone service has never been up to the standards of the old Ma Bell.

Seems the decline in society is the problem, not Climate change.
 
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Hunh. And I thought it was both.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
 
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