Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03 148

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.

Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse

Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02

Thank you

SF Charlie
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[Keith_1]

Ingenuity,

S5-14 Elevators and Stairwells.

https://www.townofsurfsidefl.gov/do...-ave---structural-pages.pdf?sfvrsn=18191194_3

 

[boo1]

interesting collection of picture, not implying agreement with conclusion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEPyE2h6P4k

 

[ChiefInspectorJ]

In the photos you posted of the entrance to the garage what is the square object to the upper right? A beam?? It's a sign.

 

[Mark R]

oo1]interesting collection of picture, not implying agreement with conclusion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEPyE2h6P4k

I found that thread previously but I'm really not sure how knowledgeable the creator of it is. He obviously has not been on the site and by walking the video it looks like he's just trying to connect himself with name people such as CNN commentators etc. I'm not sure any of the information in that video is usable to draw conclusions from.

 

[lucky555]

Alright, which one of you guys did it: source
"Crestview Towers’ condominium association in North Miami Beach has a report from an engineer saying the building is safe for occupancy and it will be submitted to North Miami Beach officials by Noon on Tuesday according to Mariel Tollinchi, the association’s attorney. A Jan. 11 “unsafe” warning to the board from an engineer prompted the North Miami Beach building and zoning department officials to condemn the Crestview Towers Condominium Friday afternoon. Tollinchi said the report was very vague.
“A subsequent inspection was had of the building recently and an unofficial report was released by that engineer saying that the building is actually safe for occupancy and that the repairs on the structure and electrical can be done with the residents there,” Tollinchi said."


MOJOJOHN mentioned 40 year certifications must be done by those licensed as Special Inspectors (S.I.) and I don't see that on the Jan. 11 B&A Inspection Report.
What a massive turd, Miami can't even figure out who has authority and who is qualified etc. meanwhile people are getting booted out/in their apartments.
Mayor, City Manager, Building Department, Inspector, Condo Association, Lawyers, Unsafe Structures, engineer's flip flopping. Unbelievable.

 

[AtomixPro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEPyE2h6P4k

Speculates that the image is the end of a broken beam.

Who is going to break it to him that what he describes as a broken beam in the tiktok video is just a TOW AWAY SIGN?

You can see the sign in the google street view.

Link

 

[Sym P. le]

In the photos you posted of the entrance to the garage what is the square object to the upper right? A beam??

Tow away zone sign.

 

[zebraso]

Does this appear to be a detached balcony railing?

 

[Keith_1]

What drives me absolutely crazy is that a building actually got to the point, where (1) the structural issues that could have been easily repaired 15 years ago, got so bad to lead us to this point (2) that the switchgear was not properly maintained and needed to be replaced (3) the domestic pump and double detector were not maintained and needed replacement (4) the fire pump was not maintained needed to be replaced (5) The generator was not maintained and needed to be replaced, and (6) every other system basically needed major repairs, or replacement.

Finite analysis or any math in the world in regards to a moment, seismic activity, or am eccentric point load is simply not appropriate, when every other system has failed.

I will say once again that some failures such as the FIU or Hardrock are entirely appropriate to subject to finite or discreet analyses, but in both instances, the point of analysis started during construction and not 40 years after. In both case of the FIU and the Hardrock failures there was a structural failure that can be learned from; However I simply don't see want can be learned from the failure of a 40 year old structure that has been highly loaded on multiple occasions, yet collapsed under it's own weight.


Like I have said we are a self-regulating industry, we write the codes, I think there is a need for us to do so.

 

[BrianPetersen]

As long as you have condominium ownership and management structures the way they are currently set up across North America (Florida is hardly alone in having this problem), you are going to get people that don't have the necessary qualifications making the decisions to not spend the money that needs to be spent.

 

[JohnRBaker]

The rest of the building is down...

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

Sure glad it wasn't me... that they would get a report stipulating that is also a concern. As we used to say when things didn't make any sense... "No dots on dice".

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[ChiefInspectorJ]

I just want to comment regarding inspections. The only way to attempt to avoid massive corruption is to have the insurance companies do the inspections since they have the liability.They also will be free of local politics.
I can't tell you the hundreds of times I had been overruled on crucial inspection decisions by my Building Official bosses. They were controlled by the boss hogs of the town/County and by the contractors.
Now here in Florida private inspectors are paid guns for the contractors that hired them. So you have a massive problem.

 

[dik]

by itself? or did it need help?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Js5180]

Warrenslo,

What is the ENR report? Can you (re)post a link please?

Also, isn’t that triangular hole in a CMU wall? It looks to me like the slab along that whole area has been pulled out, leaving a horizontal hole and taking a chunk of CMU wall with it over the staircase. Or is that your point? The slab was pulled out, rather than snapped like the rest of them?

Zebraso - I think that’s a staircase, from the east stair tower. Here’s a different angle, showing a prefab steel staircase nearby, and there’s a few of these scattered around in various pics but all in that general area:

The other possibility may be the fence between the upper garage and the pool deck. The black object directly behind the car’s driver side appears to be a window frame.

 

[Mark R]

by itself? or did it need help?

It was taken down with explosive charges by CDI.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I was watching the live feed link posted by nononononono at 23:04.

I read that the demolition wasn't going to happen until after 10:00pm EDT, so that when I started to watch. Several times you could see what looked like drones in the air, apparently waiting for the moment that they set off the charges, which was about 10:31pm EDT. About five minutes before that occurred, you could hear sirens going off, which I assumed was the final on-site warning. There appears to have been some fire based on the appearance of a bright yellow glow for the first couple of minutes after the building came down.


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[gonefishing2]

The Triangular shear wall missing from the stair tower adjacent to elevator shaft appears to have been damaged at upper right corner as the beginning of the tear that ran diagonal down. The lower part of triangle looks like it peeled away as it fell. My theory is that the roof column anchor that was designed to go at the top edge of that diagonal tear was load tested that day and weakened the stair sheer wall, which fell later than night/early morning. Thus this might be the trigger that started it all. The stairs in the picture just posted is of the North stairs.

 

[Keith_1]

WOW, to do that in 24hrs, without any prep, I'am simply speechless. I didn't think that they were only doing were doing any placement of charges above the 1st elevated floor, but I was clearly wrong. I have no Idea how this was mobilized, or performed in such a quick manner, but WOW.

 

[boo1]

but the marble in the entrance was very pretty....