Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05 111

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04


SF Charlie
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[jbourne8]

Ah yea, he says that's from the north garage there. The garage layout is a bit different there too btw. Personally I wouldn't bother comparing these two images as they're from such different angles.. drawing it out is more likely to be correct. But this is more how the photos look when you center the columns and flatten it a bit so they follow a similar angle to the tiktok video:

They overlay perfectly then too, and it's pretty obvious about where the column was, and 28:

But yea.. it's sloppy and I don't really like that way of drawing it out myself. The way this is flattening the image makes the CTN garage columns much skinnier in this pic than they actually were too, so it only marks the center of the column.

Crazy enough too, I compared it to my earlier drawing and it's perfectly centered.. I wasn't actually expecting that because this style of drawing is so sloppy.

 

[bones206]

jbourne8 - I didn't catch that it was the garage of the other building. That does makes a difference...

I kind of buy what you're showing for the alignment. Just for argument's sake, what if column M11.1 broke and toppled to the right? Couldn't that conceivably match what I outlined as the broken sections of M11.1?

 

[NOLAscience]

Ok, it didn't take out a column (though in the condition these columns were in, who knows), but perhaps it jarred the column and the (1) insufficient rebar that has been deteriorated over time, (2) lack of drop panel and additional rebar connecting column to deck, (3) overloaded deck (from heavy vehicles and water from recent rains in 3" of pool deck over waterproofing collapsed a slab, or at least created a crack. He says to himself, "I am not sleeping in this building tonight."

"Power was out in my unit" is just his cover story for not sleeping in the building. I bet the power company can verify if power was out to that unit before 11:00 pm.

Maybe he just saw the planter had fallen from the pool deck into the parking garage, and he said, "I'm not sleeping in this building. It's falling apart." BUT he didn't warn anyone and he doesn't want to catch hell for that.

His current home address is in NYC. That is a two-day drive. Makes sense that he may have been tired after driving for two days and arriving at 10:30 pm.

EDIT TO ADD: His home address is important if this is where he was returning from. I didn't invent this information. It came from

https://www.fastpeoplesearch.com/

.

 

[jbourne8]

I was having a hard time following the letter/numbering for the columns really, since I don't normally work with building plans. I think a few other people might be having the same problem too, and I do make a lot of quick and dirty diagrams for work.. so I drew this one up so I could follow along with that part:

And hm.. it seems too far back in the room to be M11.1/the missing column? I can't quite make sense of it laying across the top of the planter from the other side if it is M11.1. Seems like it'd make more sense that it's under the planter/slab and out of sight.. or it's that white object laying on the ground to the right. I'm sort of convinced that those two pieces of broken column or slab aren't actually the same column and they just look like they are from this angle.

 

[jbourne8]

NOLAscience, why are we posting people's home addresses? Come on. Eric Zion wasn't even the last person who left the garage that night btw, two people from Argentina were and they quickly got on private flights afterwards. If you're going to chase after anyone, why not them?

And fair enough.. I figured horizontal column/beam is all easy to understand language but perhaps not heh.

 

[Demented]

If it toppled to the right, wouldn't the column be under the pool deck, and not visible as debris in the stills or video?

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[jbourne8]

Demented, I don't think it's obvious how much of the pool deck has collapsed in the tiktok video, since we can't see column 28/M12.1. It seems like at least some of the pool deck is still standing, or not on the ground. What's always confused me a bit too is that the lighting looks the same deep into the garage as it does up front, which seems to hint that garage lights could still be on and in tact at this point. The light at the base of the garage ramp between the L and M columns seems to still be on by the light pattern you see on M8.1. I have a hard time believing we're seeing moonlight back there that's just as bright, but it's all very open to interpretation.

 

[bones206]

Depends on the sequence of events I guess. I'm not married to this theory, it's just what I think I see squinting at the enhanced tik tok video stills.

The angle of the planters (what I believe are the planters) leads me to conclude the slab failed around the 1'-11" elevation drop at the edge of the long planter. The slab would have hinged along grid 11.1 and dropped to the shape of a ramp. That would explain why some of the planters look high up in the photo. Then maybe column M11.1 buckled and fell to the right after the initial slab collapse.

 

[AutisticBez]

Jbourne8,

See the column inbetween parking spots 27 and 28?

This column is M11.1 its the first column not under the building structure. Which is why its got the .1 at the end. Can you see how its rectangular in dimensions? Its 12 inchs by 16 inches.

It has a tri shaped piling under it into the ground. At the top a beam connects it with M10 along the roof. Which is under the planter boxes.

So on vehicle collisions, its normally the bottom which shears out due to the vehicle being low to ground. So perhaps the beam further pushes the shear at the bottom by holding extra strong at the top?

Also someone should be able to answer whether there is a cold joint between piling and column. This and rusted rebar at the bottom make the bottom shear a high probability.

Maybe car impacts at 10:30pm but takes hours to propagate? Makes sense with Unit 111. Slowly the deck fails until complete collapse?

 

[jbourne8]

The problem I have with the car theory is that there is no smashed up car in this video. You guys are suggesting they ran into it, and then their car was still running well enough to go park elsewhere. Also, the tiktok user said that they saw the garage ceiling collapse btw.. I find it hard to believe she missed a car crash with the sound it would have made.

No one knew the building would collapse too, and leaving your smashed up car behind as evidence without ever calling the cops basically proves you're not innocent.. most people would never take that risk on the chances the building might collapse and destroy the evidence. It's all too far fetched.

 

[NOLAscience]

But, if a car /truck hit the column with enough force to completely detach it from the floor, wouldn't it have followed the column?

Maybe the car hit a column that we cannot see, and that caused the deck above to shear off and fall, tugging on the column that seems to be missing in the TikTok image, and pulling it over. Just an idea.

 

[spsalso]

How lucky can you be?

Eric smashes his car into a column that's GOING to fail, but doesn't yet. Or he'd be jelly. Then, once he's safely out of squishability range, down it comes.

Wow, buy a lottery ticket NOW!


spsalso

 

[NOLAscience]

Probably 200A electric service per condo or more if they have tankless water heaters.

This place was built in 1981. Tankless water heaters were as uncommon as mobile phones in those days. And I found a water heater in an image of the remaining structure. See:

 

[Demented]

Demented, I don't think it's obvious how much of the pool deck has collapsed in the tiktok video, since we can't see column 28/M12.1. It seems like at least some of the pool deck is still standing, or not on the ground. What's always confused me a bit too is that the lighting looks the same deep into the garage as it does up front, which seems to hint that garage lights could still be on and in tact at this point. The light at the base of the garage ramp between the L and M columns seems to still be on by the light pattern you see on M8.1. I have a hard time believing we're seeing moonlight back there that's just as bright, but it's all very open to interpretation.

Not much yet collapsed is my guess. I have a feeling the tiktok video lines up with the "sink hole" opening up that Cassie Stratton mentioned on the phone. I don't believe it is moonlight either we are seeing. It was cloudy, windy, and scattered storms that entire night up and down the coast. The TikTok video is probably a few seconds late on actually getting any column collapse, or anything other than the very start of the deck punching through.

In the TikTok video, all there is, I believe, is the initial stages of the slab collapse, prior to any other collapse, just around or before the M11.1 column. That is why we cannot see the column hidden behind the fallen planters, pool chairs/tables, and upper deck rubble. Some of the upper deck still on and hanging to what little reinforcement is there. This is just above a planter drain location and near a main deck drain that was known to be partially inop and was leaving standing water above the area in the video days before, which in itself is a massive level of water to just be sitting there given it is known to be leaking through and just sitting on the waterproofing membrane. Given that Cassie called to tell her husband of the sinkhole, it seems it wasn't such a huge thing at the time, which also lines up with just some simple construction noises and bangs from below people heard. The Tiktok video then ends here as they go to the other vantage spot but everything happened so quickly, the building was down before the phone was out recording again. This is likely around the time Cassie then started saying the ground was shaking, screams, the deck fully falls, down comes the supporting structure, and call ends. Almost lines up with what we see in the ring cam video.



Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[julootamu]

NolaScience posted "This place was built in 1981. Tankless water heaters were as uncommon as mobile phones in those days. And I found a water heater in an image of the remaining structure"

Can't argue with picture of tank in debris. Only thing is that water heaters only last 10 years or so so that water heaters in each condo have probably been replaced at least 3 or 4 times. Some condos could have tankless units when replaced if electric service is a least 200A.

My house was built in the 60's, had at least three 40gal electric water heaters, then a heat pump wtr heater w 80 gallon tank, then five years ago a 21 kW tankless. The heat pump water heater worked best. Tankless not enough capacity even at 100A, 21kW.

 

[AutisticBez]

What if the car impact is the left side on the corner? Car would end up spinning off the impact, it would continue off towards the rear of the parking garage. If the car clipped the column, the column would definitely be removed and possibly spinning from the impact. Also, what about lower speeds? The rebar in bad condition could shear from lower speeds. What if the original construction is so terrible that this column was just waiting for an impact?

Nobody can explain the loss of the column. It should be a puncture shear like the rest. There is no explainable reason other then out of plane vehicle impact with a column carrying axial load.

 

[Vance Wiley]

You are right on track. It is NOT good practice to stop one column bar and start another without a lap bar or a coupling/splice collar. In good practice the bars below the floor would be extended ABOVE the top of the slab pour a code specified distance, and new bars started at the top of the slab pour, creating the lap.
We can hope there are many more elements preserved as this one was, because they all are needed to fit the puzzle together. In this failure, most slabs appear to have slipped down the columns like kebabs on a skewer. The column in the photo should have at least some of the slab still sticking to the concrete of the column. A 6 inch slab failing in diagonal tension should leave a cone of concrete 6" out from the column at slab top and tapering to face of column at the bottom of slab, This one just slipped through.
Or - was the column bar torch cut toclear other reinforcing for removal? It would seem more practical to cut the slab reinforcing.
Is that a pour joint in the column section just before the end of the bar on the left? There should be a pour joint at the bottom of the slab and at the top of the slab.

 

[mc3vy]

Looks like some pool deck remodeling done around 2013? PVC pipes topside? Maybe the drains were being fixed? Planters still has palm trees here. Palm trees were changed sometime in Q4 of 2017. (Image grabbed using Google earth Date and Time filter)

 

[SFCharlie]

So, let me see if I've got this right now. A man just flew into Miami Beach after picking up his Russian mail order bride by Amflack's auto-plane. They dropped the couple and their car on the roof. He stepped on the accelerator by mistake and drove off the roof into a stack of roofing tar paper, The tar paper broke their fall, but also the pool deck. Because tar is a viscous liquid, they had time to run upstairs and get a scooter to carry their valuables and a condom in, before the building collapsed. Right?
(Back in the USSA)

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[kjoiner]

I saw this video with some commentary. It includes the video showing the water running down into the parking area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEPyE2h6P4k