Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 14 41

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 13

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[Demented]

The TikTok video was recorded at 1:14AM, uploaded at 1:15AM.

The timeline stating the deck collapsed at 1:16AM is inaccurate.

And yes Optical, I read all of your post. Swinny is correct in my feelings.

The deck collapsed sometime before 1:14AM if the TikTok video captures only the aftermath of the deck collapsing.

The timeline is pure nonsense meant to twist the narative.

Edit: we are also dealing with at least 4 different, non syncronized devices that all limely show different times at the same time. So we cannot fully pinpoint the times. The additional security video from across the street that can see the deck will confirm the timing and sequence.

 

[Optical98]

What is nonsense?

 

[Spartan5]

That the pool deck collapsed at 1:16.

 

[Optical98]

Demented

Actually I've just looked up several articles and they all state that video was recorded at 1:18 am..

https://abc7chicago.com/florida-col...fore-collpase-champlain-tower-south/10847025/

https://meaww.com/who-is-adriana-sa...surfside-condo-just-before-and-after-collapse

 

[Demented]

Also per 911 records, and the Alarm sercice company, the alarm was triggered at 1:15AM.

Furman's call to 911 was at 1:16, yes? She called a minute or two after the collapse, not at the exact moment.

@Optical
If you can still find the original video, download it and look at the metadata. I've deleted most images and videos so I don't have the original anymore.

 

[SFCharlie]

SFCharlie
Were you going to re-transcribe that unicode text post that someone added a few days ago? In trying to read/decipher it I thought it said something about inspecting elevator shaft beams??

The post was removed...
The Poster was removed...
If anyone will own up to why, I will consider posting the plain text...


SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[Optical98]

Spartan

What time do you think the pool deck collapsed?

Sara Nir says she was looking at her phone and it was 1:14 when she got up to walk down the hall to speak to Furman. It was after or during their convo that she saw the valet parking collapse.

 

[Optical98]

Demented (Industrial)22 Nov 21 19:09
"The TikTok video was recorded at 1:14AM, uploaded at 1:15AM."


You were arguing the time of the video, not the 911 call.

 

[Demented]

My point being, the silent alarm and first 911 call from the deck collapse were before 1:16AM.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[SFCharlie]

If we got this down ta two minutes, what's the dif'

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[Spartan5]

Spartan

What time do you think the pool deck collapsed?

Sara Nir says she was looking at her phone and it was 1:14 when she got up to walk down the hall to speak to Furman. It was after or during their convo that she saw the valet parking collapse.

The “valet parking” ≠ “the pool deck.”

I don’t think the whole of the pool deck collapsed in its entirety during a single instantaneous event at a specific moment in time.

I’ve been saying that since the first thread, second at the latest, before this place was overrun with garbage. And I restated my thoughts on that specific matter just several posts ago. You chose to ignore the salient point I made and instead went off on a tangent about how I was badgering you.

 

[Demented]

I think it's been forgotten that the valet deck, which had extensive slab damage and was partially over a pencil thin and cracked column as well as with a damaged outside support wall, collapsed before the rest of the deck. Cars jutting up in the air BEFORE residents even began to see the actual pool deck collapsing into a "sinkhole".

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[SwinnyGG]

You say we can not take the witness stmts aka "Jackq public" seriously, they have no idea what they really heard?
I hope they never peruse this forum to see how little You value their statements.

Um... yes. They have no idea what they heard. If they knew exactly what they heard, at what time and in what specific order, this entire line of conversation- now a thread in 14 parts and probably thousands of posts in length- would be rendered completely unnecessary.

So yes. The witnesses don't know what they heard. It's a fact. Get over it. The fact that they don't know what they heard is no more demeaning to them than the fact that I don't know what Demented had for breakfast this morning is to me.

However then you go on to say we can't change or propose other adjectives to contemplate what they heard, but YOU use the words "Detonate"?

Uhhh... what?

 

[MaudSTL]

Other than the silent alarm, this has been listed in the timeline for many months. None of the times in the timeline is affected by the Herald story. One can imagine that they may have used the Timeline as a reference.

 

[Spartan5]

I think it's been forgotten that the valet deck … collapsed before the rest of the deck. Cars jutting up in the air BEFORE residents even began to see the actual pool deck collapsing into a "sinkhole".

It’s not that it’s been forgotten. It’s that it had never been established.

 

[MaudSTL]

We can't 'use whatever adjective we like' when discussing specific witness statements, unless we want to corrupt them. Which we shouldn't. We should extract what value from them we can, which is only what we know is useful. The rest we should view as anecdotal information only.

Thank you. Totally agree. The entire reason I made the Timeline was to capture what we knew to be relevant from people who survived the building collapse, in order to create a timed sequence of credible observations that witnesses heard, saw, felt, etc. I am not fond of using Mike Stratton as a primary source, as the Herald does, because his information is second-hand. But everyone else was present and is using their own vocabulary, often in a second language, to describe what they experienced.

I knew the day would come when people would cherry pick their favorite statements (and editorial errors made by journalists and entertainment copywriters) to support their favorite theories. Yet, despite that, here we are going down the same rabbit holes we have already gone down before. I remonstrate against this only because search engines can find these pages, and I don’t want someone who is ill informed to draw inaccurate conclusions.

 

[Demented]

It’s not that it’s been forgotten. It’s that it had never been established.

Fair point, and true.
Speculative at best based on statements from witnesses.

Swinny, only thing demeaning would be knowing what I had. *shakes head at oneself*

 

[MaudSTL]

I think it's been forgotten that the valet deck … collapsed before the rest of the deck. Cars jutting up in the air BEFORE residents even began to see the actual pool deck collapsing into a "sinkhole".

It’s not that it’s been forgotten. It’s that it had never been established.

I don’t believe that a deck collapse sequence has been established by witness statements. The Herald’s engineer makes the case for the failure of the attachment to the south perimeter wall. Josh Porter supports Jinal Doshi’s theory that the long span and last minute elimination of transfer beams are likely culprits. As for witness statements, they tell us that:
[ol 1]
[li]Nobody who survived to tell about it actually saw the deck as it collapsed.[/li]
[li]Sarah Nir ran to the lobby window immediately and saw that the valet parking area, which was the closest part of the deck to where she was standing, had collapsed. We do not know if she could see beyond that, considering the clouds of concrete dust in the dark of night.[/li]
[li]No witnesses described a series of deck collapses; all survivors experienced a single deck collapse.[/li]
[/ol]

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

Within a day or 2 of the collapse, I read an interview with the tourist who said she recorded the video at 1:18. I believe the pool deck collapsed at 1:16.

The reason is on my video of the police 911 calls, I showed how the time stamp for Sara and the security guard calling 911 was at 1:16, and the fire alarm monitoring company 911 call is at 9:17.

In the same video, I showed Gabe's phone call to 9:11 the time stamp says 1:22, and you can hear the condo collapsing behind them at 1:22.

My other video of the police bodycams, shows the first officer pulling up in front of the building at 1:24, 2 minutes after the collapse, but 7 minutes after the 911 call.
The timestamp on bodycam shows officer getting out of his car at 1:24:44, but he actually pulled up to the building at 1:24:14

 

[MaudSTL]

I have no idea why we must now revisit info we have had for many months. But for those who would like the known timestamps, they are in the Timeline spreadsheet in the last tab called Detailed Timeline Data, in as many digits as are known. When a known time is approximate, it is prepended with a tilde (~). “Before” a known time is prepended with less than (<) and “after” is prepended with greater than(>).