Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 16 24

[dik]

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Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Nukeman948]

Maybe I was just testing to see if you were an engineer or a philosopher or both.
Not relevant to this collection of threads, but to the site in general?

WOW, I seem to have my very own groupies. Strange days indeed. Most peculiar even.

Maybe I'm not an engineer.
Maybe I'm not a philosopher.
Maybe I'm not some random idiot on the internets.

Is this creative writing or has a Sparky set up ring and pinion gears in a differential?

Like you, I have received training in multiple disciplines. Master of none as they say. But don't sell me short.
When a person is not obsessed with money they are free to pursue whatever their heart desires.
But with some people it's "All About Money". AmIright?

[sub]I'm new here, are you with the banned?
[/sub]​

 

[FJBnomics]

Like you, I have received training in multiple disciplines. Master of none as they say. But don't sell me short.

Trust me, I would never sell you short based upon your post showing an obvious broad background! I was impressed with your Jetson enhanced post and how you knew about gear backlash!

It brought by memories from childhood cartoons coupled with auto rebuilds that most have never even thought about!

You earned another Star!

BTW, I did not know answer to your West sidewalk question, however it could be 87 Park just wanted wider sidewalk in front of their Spaceship ?

Finally, Netflix has a documentary film, ‘Downfall’ explaining how ‘All About Money’ culture change was behind 737 Max MCAS criminal coverup and failure by Boeing, after McDonnell CEO took over joint company. It shows how good engineering culture gets replaced with short term Stock Price focus.

 

[FJBnomics]

I will soon get back to clarifying the possible sequence of events as I see them with a diagram and some more information. This weekend I hope

I look forward to reading your full sequence post.

 

[Demented]

Thermo, If I recall correctly, that sidewalk should be property of Miami-Dade Public Works.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[FJBnomics]

Demented, thanks for your response. I think what Nukeman was asking was why side walk was widen on East side of 8701 Collins Property line as shown on GIS maps I posted. Clearly anything west of their property line is Street ROW. In my state, there are no utility easements at street on my property, only on sides and back for U&D. At street ROW stops at property line.

Edit: Perhaps Nukeman will confirm if I understood his question correctly.

Edit 2: I must say I am impressed that you got 2 Stars for answering the question incorrectly! That is impressive.....

 

[Demented]

I was just a little late on replying to something, I think. Shutdown is coming up, oh joy. Days have blurred into weeks.
It's an easement for that vacant lot owned by the Public works that is essentially public beach access. The town sold off the road only, but not the easement or beach access lot. 87 park developers would more than likely have "permission" of some sorts from Miami-Dade to renovate their property so long as it all fell in line with code and permits.
Folio 02-3202-006-0670

Maybe it was nukeman who asked. *shrugs*

Anyway, yeah, sidewalk is owned by Miami-Dade Public Works.


Edit: If gold stars in Kindergarten were this easy to get, I might have gotten somewhere in school.

 

[Nukeman948]

The town sold off the road only, but not the easement or beach access lot.

Thank you.
The public beach access, who owns it and who is responsible for it, was the point I was trying to get clarified. I only mentioned the Collins Ave. sidewalk to point out that the information, as presented, did not seem likely to be accurate.

Miami Dade GIS Maps disclaimer:
Miami-Dade County provides this website as a public service to its residents and visitors. The County is continually editing and updating GIS data to improve positional accuracy and information. [highlight #ffff99]No warranties, expressed or implied, are provided for the positional or thematic accuracy of the data herein, its use, or its interpretation. Although it is periodically updated, this information may not reflect the data currently on file at Miami-Dade County and the County assumes no liability either for any errors, omissions, or inaccuracies in the information provided regardless of the cause of such or for any decision made, action taken, or action not taken by the user in reliance upon any information provided herein.[/highlight]


Trick question of the day: How many links does a chain have?

[sub]"If it was on the internets, it must be true".
[/sub]​

 

[FJBnomics]

Anyway, yeah, sidewalk is owned by Miami-Dade Public Works.

Demented, Municipalities don't own easements. Easements are NOT ownership in land, but right to use that part of someone else's land. Right of Ways are owned by Municipalities. It appears that West of property line has to be ROW, and East of property line on Collins has to be easement if city is using for utilities and such.

Edit: Or as Nukeman now is saying, the data base is CRAP!

Edit: Nukeman's original cryptic question was concerning only sidewalk along Collins avenue in the question I was referring too. I was NOT talking about Beach Access.

This is a prime example of why this forum is a waste of time for all of us, on this kind of stuff. It is like texting vs talking to someone directly, in that a lot of context is lost.......

PS: Whoever gave you the 2 Stars reminds me of the old saying, "Ignorance is Bliss"......

 

[IanCA]

I look forward to reading your full sequence post.

Here is a diagram indicating what I believe to the approximate sequence in which elements of the parking deck, pool deck and building support columns failed.

The positions of most of the cracks in zone one are taken directly from photographic evidence, but some are inferred.

With reference to MaudSTL's timeline summary posted on 3 Feb 22 17:50.

I believe the failure of zone one occurred relatively slowly and agrees with timeline item 2 (banging heard from 11PM onwards increasing in intensity) until the southern extremity of the deck detached from the wall. That could coincide with the loud crash described in timeline item 3. I believe that area of concrete was very degraded and could explain the dust.

I believe the collapse of zone two occurred fairly rapidly due to the forces involved as an increasingly larger area of the deck begins to fall. This could likely coincide with the very large crash described in timeline item 5. I have added a letter suffix to indicate the relative time of the collapse. The progression is generally from south to north but the collapse of the eastern region is delayed slightly until it finally reaches the wall at 2E.

I'm interested to hear comments. I can explain the sequence in more detail and I still need to explain why some areas of the structure are exposed to more salt than others.

Suggestions welcome.​

 

[FJBnomics]

Suggestions welcome.

Good start on graphic depiction. I would suggest adding column labels from original CTS drawings to make discussions of a particular column easy to reference. Perhaps add legend with timeline events to label those on drawing as well. One graphic could tell a lot of story.

I am interested in complete decay theory in Zone 1 causing loss of steel grid or concrete deterioration in that area.

Also interested in your vibration resonances leading up to further delamination and punch shear readiness.

More description of what is happening on time clock at each column or area would also be inciteful.

 

[Nukeman948]

It is impossible to have an honest discussion with a dishonest person.

I made a small change to my name as a joke and changed it back.

When I used one of Thermopile's aka thermopyle2.1, and Thermobaric's aliases "All About Money" he feigned ignorance.

He created a new account with his old screen name after abandoning his old account under the alias "gonefishing2".

What is he trying to hide with multiple accounts and constant name changes?

I'm not sure what his motives are and I have no reason to accept any explanation he may offer. The same goes for his two friends.

 

[FJBnomics]

It is impossible to have an honest discussion with a dishonest person.

When I used one of Thermopile's aliases "All About Money" he feigned ignorance.

He created a new account with his old screen name after abandoning his old account under the alias "gonefishing2".

I'm not sure what his motives are and I have no reason to accept any explanation he may offer. The same goes for his two friends.

So I assist in answering your question with true facts, and because you don't like the answer you attack me, and make false accusations rather than simply googling definition's of ROW's and Easements to confirm that what I said is the legal definition of those terms, and you don't even mention your question about property line on West side splitting new wider sidewalk.

Fine, I was done anyways because of the agenda's of some of the folks like Nukeman948 that add no value....

To my apparent two friends, as per Nuke's False Accusations, whoever they may be, I wish you luck if you choose to continue on.......

 

[IanCA]

@thermopyle2.1 Let's keep going.

I would suggest adding column labels from original CTS drawings to make discussions of a particular column easy to reference.

Suggestions welcome.​

 

[IanCA]

Perhaps add legend with timeline events to label those on drawing as well.

Timeline by MaudSTL.

Suggestions welcome.​

 

[FJBnomics]

@thermopyle2.1 Let's keep going.

I would like to see construction joints noted in different color on your graphic, perhaps a dashed yellow line? The one on East is not shown, however it appears the white straight lines that cross at K15 are construction joints?

I have a hard time following flow of progression from 2A. I would like to see notations beyond 1,2,3 A,B,C,D like .column labels thru .column whatever extensions showing progression flow at each involved column. I clearly see spread for example from 1 to 2A, but as to why different pieces fall in sequence beyond that, it is nor clear. I think it takes narrative to go with picture and perhaps photo thumbnails referenced to logic to tell story.

Good work and I hope you continue with your attempt at explaining the puzzle.

 

[IanCA]

I would like to see construction joints noted in different color on your graphic, perhaps a dashed yellow line?

Agreed, that would be a good addition, but I'm not sure about the locations of some of those construction joints. Do you know if there is a drawing anywhere showing them, please?

Yes, the narrative is important but it will take me some more time to put it together.

Suggestions welcome.​

 

[FJBnomics]

Do you know if there is a drawing anywhere showing them, please?

All I have seen is the construction joint section view in the original drawings. I have not noticed locations of joints identified.

 

[FJBnomics]

Building Intergity's Latest Video talking about Proposed Florida Condo Law Changes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsUVT5nv2YA

 

[FJBnomics]

It is impossible to have an honest discussion with a dishonest person.

I made a small change to my name as a joke and changed it back.

When I used one of Thermopile's aka thermopyle2.1, and Thermobaric's aliases "All About Money" he feigned ignorance.

He created a new account with his old screen name after abandoning his old account under the alias "gonefishing2".

What is he trying to hide with multiple accounts and constant name changes?

I'm not sure what his motives are and I have no reason to accept any explanation he may offer. The same goes for his two friends.

Nukeman948/Nukedude948's “RULES FOR THEE BUT NOT FOR ME” MINDSET[highlight #EF2929][/highlight]

I guess one could ask why does NukeDUDE948/NukeMAN948 use a unique signature block on all his posts, but then I just consider the source and the answer is clear..........

 

[spsalso]

From Mr. Porter's video, the proposed "initial" inspections (as required by potential new law, discussed) could be carried out by an architect. I wonder how Friedman would have approached this task if called upon to review CTS.


spsalso