Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V 6

[dik]

thread1618-496010
thread1618-496614
thread1618-497017
thread1618-497239

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[GregLocock]

So far as the retracted or not study, here's the 'missing' heatwave data

As an aside, yes heatwaves are getting worse/more frequent in cities. UHI explains that.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[TugboatEng]

Does anybody remember the heydays of the internet when university libraries (UC Berkeley in particular) digitized their entire out of print catalog and made it available publicly for free?

 

[GregLocock]

"They do not have a section on heat waves"—mentioned only in passing—"where the observed trends are so incredibly obvious", Otto said.Here's a great paper on heatwaves. Alarmists in Europe have a bit to explain (yes I know cities are getting hotter)- yes there is an uptick around the equator, specifically Morocco Tunisia and Yemen. Everywhere else bupkis.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16970-7

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[dik]

Greg... on a per capita basis... the US still beats out China by a factor of 2... what your charts don't show is that China has 5x the population of the US. See how China's renewable energy is climbing rapidly while the US is relatively flat.

My earlier posting which shows the carbon fuels by the different countries paints a different picture... China is high in Coal next to Australia, South Africa, and South Korea, but relatively lower in the other fossil fuels that produce CO[sub]2[/sub].

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SwinnyGG]

When are you two going to figure out that you've spent months arguing this point because you very clearly think that two different metrics are most important

Greg cares about gross

Dik cares about per capita

Argue per capita measures instead of gross... or something. At least something different.

 

[dik]

Per capita is a better measure of the amount of carbon put out by the country. A country with a much larger population is unfairly judged for it's carbon footprint. They often cite China for being so 'bad' but the population they are comparing it to is 5x the population of the US. India's population is much larger, too.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Tomfh]

As has been shown already, per capita emissions correlate perfectly with per capita GDP.

So if you want improve on a per capita basis, you are asking everyone to be a lot poorer. Some climate activists are honest enough to admit this. They say we need to return to a far more humble existence. There is logic in that. Maybe in a few hundred years when all the cheap oil, coal and gas is used up we may be forced back into such an existence whether we like it or not.

 

[GregLocock]

The point I was making is that dik's pretty graph is cherry picking. China uses an awful lot of coal in industrial processes, so looking at its electrical generation green credentials masks the scale of the actual situation.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[SwinnyGG]

The point I was making is that dik's pretty graph is cherry picking. China uses an awful lot of coal in industrial processes, so looking at its electrical generation green credentials masks the scale of the actual situation.

Oh I get it.

But his counter is going to be that YOUR pretty graphic is cherry picking, because it doesn't account for the the fact that China has a zillion people and thus the per capita level of emissions is lower.

And then you'll just respond that all that matters is how much coal you burn, relative population isn't a factor.

Then it'll start over again for the 17th time. And you'll accuse him of being a communist propagandist because he has a different opinion about what metric matters most. Clearly neither of you is changing the others' mind. Time to move on.

 

[TugboatEng]

Umm, that was me throwing out the Communist propagandist line. Greg's data shows, the Chinas emissions are getting worse, despite their PR campaign.

I have a question, about 10% of our population is undocumented. They certainly contribute to our CO2 emissions but do they add to our capitas? That is no trivial number.

 

[GregLocock]

I don't sling political epithets around, generally.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[Tomfh]

Greg's data shows, the Chinas emissions are getting worse, despite their PR campaign.

Of course. China's industrialising. Getting richer. Their per capita emissions continue to increase.

 

[dik]

I'm not sure how the Rhodium Group is calculating things... from their website:

China is at 27% and the US is at 11% total, and the population of China is 4.33 times the American population. This would indicate the carbon footprint compared to the US would be 27/4.3289 = 6.24. The ratio of this is US:China 11/6.24 = 1.76. The US is still outdoing the Chinese on a per capita basis by a factor of 1.7 or 1.8. this is not reflected in the OECD chart above... I do not know how they have modified the numbers.

There's no question that both countries outputs have to be reduced, but the US is still #1 by a bunch and the data from Rhodium does not show the same convergence in their other chart.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Not cherry picked,but the most recent data I could find, and from these sources:

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Tomfh]

The US is still outdoing the Chinese on a per capita basis by a factor of 1.7 or 1.8. this is not reflected in the OECD chart above... I do not know how they have modified the numbers.

Of course the US has higher per capita emissions than China. It’s a far more developed country. The point is that China’s per capita emissions are catching up fast as they continue to grow their industry and economy. The overall OECD figures include all OECD countries, not the just the US.

 

[dik]

and significantly higher than the other developed countries... check the UK, for example. Maybe they are just more wasteful and don't care.

Take a gander at the chart above for development of other renewable 'green' energy sources... The US has only improved a tad, while 'backwards' China has improved a huge amount, and surpassed the US.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SwinnyGG]

How annoying it is to be right

 

[dik]

I had that problem when I was young...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

More interesting stuff on the horizon...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...istory-set-2023-16-youngster-sue-Montana.html

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

What a manipulative graphic. Notice Brazil's line goes up without actually increasing their green energy, their line is pushed up by China's.

China is about to surpass the USA in total CO2 emitted since the industrial revolution.