Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VIII 9

[dik]

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-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

concurr Swinny... The main difference is, that I hope I'm wrong. Another really big difference is that my perspective is not political. None of the political parties are addressing this... even the green party in Canada. By making it political, it's a red herring to avoid addressing what could be a serious problem.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

...more ocean stuff:

"Since this record-keeping began in the early 1980s—the other squiggly lines are previous years—the global average for the world’s ocean surfaces has oscillated seasonally between 19.7 and 21 degrees Celsius (67.5 and 69.8 Fahrenheit). Toward the end of March, the average shot above the 21-degree mark and stayed there for a month. (The most recent reading, for April 26, was just a hair under 21 degrees.) This temperature spike is not just unprecedented, but extreme."

https://www.wired.com/story/an-ominous-heating-event-is-unfolding-in-the-oceans/

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[GregLocock]

In other news there's an El Nino. Funny to be talking about global average and then showing graphs for the bit in the middle (60N to 60S) only. I wonder if they are hiding anything? Oh yes, the Antarctic Ocean is cooling.






Cheers

Greg Locock


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[dik]

Maybe, at least not warming up yet...

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-antarctic-sea-ice

"Warmer air and ocean temperatures are generally expected to reduce the amount of sea ice present worldwide. While warming has already driven a noticeable decline in sea ice in the Arctic, extent in the Antarctic as a whole has not yet declined, which may reflect influences of wind patterns, ocean currents, and precipitation around the continent."

"The abyssal ocean circulation is a key component of the global meridional overturning circulation, cycling heat, carbon, oxygen and nutrients throughout the world ocean1,2. The strongest historical trend observed in the abyssal ocean is warming at high southern latitudes2,3,4, yet it is unclear what processes have driven this warming, and whether this warming is linked to a slowdown in the ocean’s overturning circulation. Furthermore, attributing change to specific drivers is difficult owing to limited measurements, and because coupled climate models exhibit biases in the region5,6,7. In addition, future change remains uncertain, with the latest coordinated climate model projections not accounting for dynamic ice-sheet melt. Here we use a transient forced high-resolution coupled ocean–sea-ice model to show that under a high-emissions scenario, abyssal warming is set to accelerate over the next 30 years. We find that meltwater input around Antarctica drives a contraction of Antarctic Bottom Water (AABW), opening a pathway that allows warm Circumpolar Deep Water greater access to the continental shelf. The reduction in AABW formation results in warming and ageing of the abyssal ocean, consistent with recent measurements. In contrast, projected wind and thermal forcing has little impact on the properties, age and volume of AABW. These results highlight the critical importance of Antarctic meltwater in setting the abyssal ocean overturning, with implications for global ocean biogeochemistry and climate that could last for centuries."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01610-x

https://landsat.gsfc.nasa.gov/artic...more-ice-mass-annually-now-than-40-years-ago/

and with the loss of sea ice, I suspect something is warming up.

https://grace.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/31/antarctic-ice-loss-2002-2020/

https://phys.org/news/2020-06-antarctic-sea-ice-loss.html

It seems to be warming all over, maybe a little slower in antarcticia.

and the effect on currents:

https://www.dw.com/en/deep-ocean-cu...headed-for-collapse-say-scientists/a-65176623

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[GregLocock]

You are confusing the temperature of the top 1mm of water with the heat content of the oceans.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[dik]

Nope... and they aren't either. Part of the rise in sealevel is a consequence of ocean heating... not just the top 1mm.

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/ocean-warming/

It's that huge amount of energy input that has me a little curious/concerned.

Look up AMOC, which I mentioned earlier...

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2020/01/02/climate-change-gulf-stream/

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

dik

I know you say you're not political. But, you have a definite stance on a political issue. That's all that Skinny was saying.

It's like me saying that I'm adamantly pro-choice, but that it's not about politics for me.... Well, the abortion issue is extremely political, so politics comes into play in my stance. Even if I weren't cheering for Democrats or Republicans.

 

[dik]

It's become political to detract from a real problem. With me, it was never a political issue.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Tomfh]

It's like me saying that I'm adamantly pro-choice, but that it's not about politics for me..

Yup. It’s like when you hear politicians accusing the other side of “playing politics”, as if they’re not doing exactly the same thing.

 

[dik]

You can be pro-choice without it being political. It depends on what your point of reference is. Unfortunately it's become political, which generally avoids a rational approach.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

More info... that could be improbable. Impossible is a pretty remote concept. It's likely reporterspeak and not statisticianspeak

https://phys.org/news/2023-04-statistically-impossible-extremes-regions.html

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

You can be pro-choice without it being political. It depends on what your point of reference is. Unfortunately it's become political, which generally avoids a rational approach.

There is no "rational" approach to global warming that isn't inherently political. Your choices are:
a) The problem is real and catastrophic and we need to take drastic (and draconian) action right now that will result in extreme poverty, starvation, death and such for large numbers of the population. We need to force this action down the throats of the population..... Very political. Very ivory tower, very elitist.

b) The problem doesn't exist and it's made up by politicians to increase governmental power and control. Or, it's made up by extreme environmentalists that want mass genocide so that the human race goes back to purely hunter / gatherer societies that don't dominate their environments. This is also a very political approach.

c) The problem is real. It's short term and long term effects are not definitively proven. It would be wise to take reasonable (and affordable) steps now to lessen the projected impact. The economic and societal costs of these mitigation measures needs to be considered in addition, not solely the reduction in CO2 emissions that are our "goals". Bringing our economy to a net zero emission does little good if the economy has completely collapsed.

 

[Tomfh]

The economic and societal costs of these mitigation measures needs to be considered in addition, not solely the reduction in CO2 emissions that are our "goals".

Good luck getting the climate zealots to admit there are societal/economic costs to their utopian visions. They consider any such costs negligible in comparison to the infinite cost of not achieving the climate goals.

 

[dik]

I disagree, Josh... it's happening, politics, or no politics.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BridgeSmith]

What's "happening", dik? Global warming? Maybe, but with the vast majority of information gathering/research funded by governments looking to increase their power and control over their citizens/subjects, even that is questionable. Even if it's true that the planet has been warming over the last hundred or 200 years, that is no guarantee that it will continue for another hundred, 50, or 10. It's certainly no indication that it spell disaster for the planet or the human race. We are far more capable of adapting to changes in the climate than we ever have been, and we've adapted to past changes very well. Climate alarmism is all political fear-mongering in order to implement a Socialist agenda. In unguarded moments, several of the self-appointed leaders of the "green" movement have admitted as much.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Good luck getting the climate zealots to admit there are societal/economic costs to their utopian visions. They consider any such costs negligible in comparison to the infinite cost of not achieving the climate goals.

The same can be said of the opposite side.... Good luck getting the "deniers" to admit that there are long term societal / environmental costs to CO2 emissions that are not considered in our current energy economy. They consider such costs negligible / nebulous compared to any current costs associated with transitioning away from fossil fuels.

As with most things, the extreme views tend to be.... extreme. Whereas the real truth / compromise / practicality happens somewhere in the middle ground. This can be said about Global Warming, Abortion, and many other issues that are extremely politicized.

 

[BridgeSmith]

If we don't know what the right thing is to do is (and we don't, when it comes to interfering with the changes in the climate), the best course of action is to not to interfere.

 

[Luceid]

the best course of action is to not to interfere.

Are we not "interfering" already? We do exist, and are doing things that impact the planet in some capacity.

 

[SwinnyGG]

If we don't know what the right thing is to do is (and we don't, when it comes to interfering with the changes in the climate), the best course of action is to not to interfere.

Ludicrous logic. Absolutely ludicrous.

Our existence is interference. Even if you have your head in the sand regarding global warming, you can't believe that emissions in general are a good thing. Smog and acid rain are bad. Reducing them is good. Why so many people choose deliberate ignorance on this issue, whether that's the left side or the right side of the argument, is absolutely baffling.

The US has a choice - head in the sand, or attempt to be a technological leader. If we don't invest in energy technologies beyond fossil fuels, we will wind up being behind the power curve eventually, whether you believe that to be necessitated by climate or not.

Climate alarmism is all political fear-mongering in order to implement a Socialist agenda.

Conversely, ignoring climate change completely is the direct result of, by your own choice, being spoon-fed the narrative crafted by sources with a whole lot of big oil money in their pockets.

You're making an argument that is at best only tangentially true and is also impossible to win.

In unguarded moments, several of the self-appointed leaders of the "green" movement have admitted as much.

Let's see your sources. I don't believe you.

 

[Luceid]

Swinny, glad I wasn't the only one doing a double take on that one, nice post.