Train crash in Ohio 19

[spsalso]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ohio-train-derailment-causes-big-fire-evacuations/

Note the mention of extremely low temperatures.

I suspect that is the cause*.

And I suspect the train crew should have been told to operate at restricted speed, because of that possibility.

And/or the trackage should have been installed taking into account these temperatures.



spsalso


*I'm talking about the effects of rail contraction at cold temperatures. A rail joint could have failed. Or rail could have been pulled up on a curve. I suppose a rail could even have snapped.

Besides restricted speed, there's also the running of an inspection car ahead of the train.

 

[JohnRBaker]

The chair of the NTSB has commented on the Norfolk Southern train accidents:

NTSB chair on Ohio derailments and freight rail safety

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wash...sb-chair-ohio-derailment-freight-rail-safety/

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

That's a huge train... didn't know they were that long... betcha no hills...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[FacEngrPE]

NS discovers loose wheel on certain rail cars; AAR issues safety advisory

Highlights from the above posting.

During its cleanup of the site, the Class I determined that a model and series of rail cars had loose wheels, which could cause a derailment. The investigative team identified the wheels as coming from a series of recently acquired cars from a specific manufacturer, which NS did not identify in its press release.

Given that this fit is supposed to be a heavy press with QC being press force to assemble usually over 100 tons (The one time I helped with a wheel change we used a 300 ton axle press, I do not remember the exact force we used.), finding loose wheels on truck sets is surprising. Elsewhere posted - there are 600 cars identified in this batch which require inspection.

As a result of the situation, the Association of American Railroads issued an advisory to halt the use of these cars. Earlier this week,...

The AAR announced the following:
[ul]
[li]Detectors – spacing: ...[/li]
[li]Detectors – new action threshold: ...[/li]
[li]Confidential Close Call Reporting System:[/li]
[li]Training: In 2023, the railroads will train roughly 20,000 first responders in local communities across the country on accident mitigation. ...[/li]
[li]Tank car improvement: Following a safety advisory from the NTSB raising the “potential for certain manway assemblies with aluminum protective housing covers to melt when exposed to extreme heat as experienced in a pool fire situation,” ...[/li]
[/ul]

Looks like some potentially useful actions.

 

[TugboatEng]

You used a press to install bearings and not heat? No hydraulic expansion?

 

[spsalso]

Tug,

The wheels are pressed onto the axles--no bearings involved. Yet.

After that's done, the journals are projecting out from each wheel face. The bearings are slid onto those (I assume, rather than pressed), and the truck frame is dropped down onto the bearings.

Here's axles with wheels pressed on:

https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.c...7d15-bc7a-49bc-fb72-35306ab0694f/original.jpg

Note the projecting journals (without bearings).


spsalso

 

[TugboatEng]

We fit similarly sized shafts in similarly sized gears for our marine transmissions. It's all done with heat, though. No pressing. There is too much risk of galling at that level of interference.

Bearings are the same, heavy interference on the inside race, too much risk of galling. Newer systems are often drilled for hydraulic expansion but I don't see any such system on train wheels or bearings.

The press is usually used to hold the bearing against the step while it cools as they tend to walk as the shrink.

 

[FacEngrPE]

Port and bridge crane wheels get pushed onto their axles the same as railway practice. A good press lubricant is vital. In the late 1970's we used white lead and tallow, now the mechanics often use copper / oil paste (CopperCoat FelPro or somthing similar).
I think the roller bearing journals are a light interference fit.

 

[IEGeezer]

Following a safety advisory from the NTSB raising the “potential for certain manway assemblies with aluminum protective housing covers to melt when exposed to extreme heat as experienced in a pool fire situation

Aluminum covers over pressure relief devices (PRDs)may have melted and affected their proper functioning.

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20230302A.aspx

​Figure 2. Energetic pressure relief from a vinyl chloride tank car, East Palestine, Ohio, on Feb. 4. After releasing material, the PRD closed and remained closed. (Source: NTSB) (Emphasis added)

 

[JohnRBaker]

What people were hearing about the Ohio train crash may not have been coming from where they thought that it was:

Pro-Russia Voices Tried To Steer Ohio Train Derailment Debate

Some took advantage of Elon Musk's new Twitter policies to increase their reach and promote Moscow-approved talking points.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pro-...-derailment-debate_n_6415dc68e4b0fef152446232

An excerpt from the above item:

Soon after a train derailed and spilled toxic chemicals in Ohio last month, anonymous pro-Russian accounts started spreading misleading claims and anti-American propaganda about it on Twitter, using Elon Musk’s new verification system to expand their reach while creating the illusion of credibility.

The accounts, which parroted Kremlin talking points on myriad topics, claimed without evidence that authorities in Ohio were lying about the true impact of the chemical spill. The accounts spread fearmongering posts that preyed on legitimate concerns about pollution and health effects and compared the response to the derailment with America’s support for Ukraine following its invasion by Russia.

Some of the claims pushed by the pro-Russian accounts were verifiably false, such as the suggestion that the news media had covered up the disaster or that environmental scientists traveling to the site had been killed in a plane crash. But most were more speculative, seemingly designed to stoke fear or distrust. Examples include unverified maps showing widespread pollution, posts predicting an increase in fatal cancers and others about unconfirmed mass animal die-offs.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

HuffPo, really?

 

[IRstuff]

Regardless of Huffington Post, Twitter has been substantially damaged by Musk's ownership; they recently turned off two-factor authentication to non-subscription accounts. WHO DOES THAT SORT OF NONSENSE? Security should be priority and TFA should be a part of that for every user, paying or otherwise.

And the Russian stuff is reported elsewhere, including Forbes,

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerr...io-derailment-analysis-shows/?sh=173069b4616b

so Russia-supporters not withstanding, I don't get why so many so-called Americans are so eager to declare "fake-news" and defend Russians.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[TugboatEng]

It's funny that they never show examples. How are we supposed to identify Russian propaganda if we are never shown what it looks like?

 

[IRstuff]

It's funny that they never show examples. How are we supposed to identify Russian propaganda if we are never shown what it looks like?

Seriously?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2023/03/18/pro-russia-twitter-trolls-stoked-fears-about-ohio-derailment-analysis-shows/?sh=173069b4616b[/URL]]The accounts, identified for the AP by the London-based nonprofit Reset, made claims that authorities were lying about the impact of the train’s chemical spill, provoked concerns about possible health effects and compared the derailment to the U.S. government’s support for Ukraine, according to the Associated Press.

Other posts by the accounts—each of which featured a Twitter Blue verification mark—include a conspiracy that environmental scientists traveling to East Palestine were killed in a plane crash and a claim that the derailment will increase fatal cancers in the area.

One account with 25,000 followers tweeted: “Biden offers food, water, medicine, shelter, payouts of pension and social services to Ukraine! Ohio first! Offer and deliver to Ohio!”

Other accounts offered their support for the Russian government, spread claims that the U.S. was stealing Syrian humanitarian relief supplies (donated by China), and reposted videos and articles from Russian state media.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[TugboatEng]

No links?

 

[dik]

No matter how you cut it... you'd expect those kinds of antics from a third world country... it's sad.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Take a look at the source of the story.

https://www.reset.tech/credit/

Bias much?

 

[IEGeezer]

Seriously?: a conspiracy that environmental scientists traveling to East Palestine were killed in a plane crash (emphasis added)

Chasing the AP story down (

https://apnews.com/article/ohio-tra...witter-musk-49af27699727d6f4157a5d6d5f35819b)

they link to another AP story:

https://apnews.com/article/little-r...ane-crashes-8ee32804f75f8a0054a2e77e9134f2e3.

5 employees from CTEH were killed in a plane crash headed to an explosion at an Ohio metals plant. IIRC that is the same firm hired to do some environmental testing at East Palestine. whether those particular employees had anything to do with the environmental testing in East Palestine or not is unknown. So, no conspiracy, but perhaps a mistake.

But most were more speculative, seemingly designed to stoke fear or distrust. Examples include ... unconfirmed mass animal die-offs.

From the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (

https://ohiodnr.gov/discover-and-learn/safety-conservation/about-ODNR/news/Train-Derailment):

"...ODNR used a calculation endorsed by the American Fisheries Society to estimate the total number of minnows killed in the entire 5-mile span of waterway from the derailment site to the point where Bull Creek flows into the north fork of Little Beaver Creek. Of the estimate, 38,222 were minnows, ranging in size between 1 and 3 inches.

ODNR also estimated the total number of other aquatic life killed as a result of the derailment, including small fish, crayfish, amphibians, and macroinvertebrates. This number is approximately 5,500."

So, again, no conspiracy theory. Instead a mass animal die-off from a reputable government source.

 

[JohnRBaker]

And if the referenced article had sited 'estimated numbers', that would have been condemned as an attempt to mislead people, eh?

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[IEGeezer]

@ JohnRBaker

Let's start over. When I posted about the aluminum covers, I was thinking about the slices of swiss cheese theory of accidents. When the holes line up, an accident happens. Causation is not simple, but a combination of events. Previously, brakes, hot box detectors, the length of the train, reduced manpower had all been identified as factors in the accident. I thought the fact that the aluminum covers weren't on anybody's radar to be interesting. Since the necessity of doing a controlled vent and burn of the vinyl chloride tankers had also been questioned, I thought that pointing out that the pressure relief devices had failed was important. I never thought to look for Russians under my bed. Surprisingly (to me), venting and burning vinyl chloride tank cars has been done before in other derailments. The one most similar to East Palestine, OH happened in Livingston, LA on Sep. 28, 1982. I have found two accounts of that derailment and aftermath plus the NTSB report. One is a bit rosy and makes thing sound like there is little concern for future health effects:

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/east-palestine-train-derailment-future-rcna71638.

It doesn't mention any cancer deaths. The other one (

https://www.firehouse.com/rescue/ha...t36-years-later-hazmat-studies-robert-burke),

however, states:

... the first three state troopers to arrive on the site have since died from cancer. It is unknown how many others may have died from cancer caused by exposure to toxic materials during the incident.

The second one is also more detailed. Six vinyl chloride tank cars were vented and burned in Livingston, although two of these had already been breached and three of the ones that had not been breached had vented at least some of their content. A seventh vinyl chloride car BLEVEd, as did a tetra ethyl lead tank car. The NTSB report:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAR8305.pdf

Based on the Livingston, LA derailment, there is some concern about future cases of cancer, especially among first responders. That is not a conspiracy theory.

 

[TugboatEng]

And it is real that the EPA initially would not test for dioxins because they didn't have a previous baseline. You know that most hazardous chemical produced by the combustion of halocarbons.

Why would you even share such a dubious story linking peoples' serious concerns to... Russia. Are those concerns illegitimate?