Ukraine Nuclear Power Plants 9

[bones206]

Nuclear power plants are not designed to operate in war zones. What can be done to proactively shore up the safety systems of these plants in Ukraine?

Assuming Russia permitted the international community to bring equipment on-site uncontested, is there anything that could be used in a pinch to augment emergency power systems etc? When I got out of the nuclear industry in 2016, there were a lot of projects in the works for this type of “beyond design basis” scenario in response to Fukushima.

Hopefully IAEA is already being proactive about this and working in a contingency plan, but I’m interested in hearing thoughts from our community here.

 

[1503-44]

aus, I agree that western news is slanted. Try Al Jazeera. They always give equal coverage to American drone strikes and "collateral damages" by all sides, including UAE and SA strikes in Yemen. Less commercials too. There is enough guilt to share amongst all. But now please wake up. There are few leaders anywhere that want to be on history's baby killer page. All a rather unselect group of psychopaths. Oh. It's not happening? Go there. See for yourself who is blowing up maternity hospitals. Arnold would not lie to you. The problem is not Putins traitor speech. At least we are sure that's true in his little smashed wallnut. And the problem is not the western news' perspective. The problem is the result of two things, how the west's policies of the last 20yrs set this up to happen and the inappropriate response of baby killer psychopaths to what should only be a political challenge.

RT was taken off the cable net in Spain and I believe in all of the EU countries. It was pure tripe. The proof is in the number of their own employees that resigned during the last week. They could no longer read the scripts without going into personal mental meltdown, even with the threat of 15yrs in Siberia.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rt+employees+resign&t=brave&ia=web

After what I saw on Fox, it wouldn't hurt my feelings it it disappeared too, except sometimes it is so ironic its actually a great laugh. Hanity saying Biden enabled Putin? What US president was dancing on ventriloquist Putin's lap. Even you Fox people gotta love this one. Couple weeks ago Fox anchor girl somebody was interviewing Condelesa Rice (for those that dont know, or those that have amnesia worse than she does, Bush's Secretary of State) and anchor girl actually told her that, I quote, "Invading a sovereign country is a war crime! Then on camera, Condalesa is nodding her head faster than a starving dog tracking a chunky beef rib. THEN SHE SPEAKS. She's in total agreement. Like, Dude of course it is. (Tony are you listening.) This is totally hilarious. So unbelievably funny ironic.

https://mobile.twitter.com/mtracey/status/1498026998265909250?s=20&t=N4GOP2rstquF74ibIS_Tpg

I vote best comedy ever posted on twitter. Fox actually has some truth, but you gotta look under the sheets to see it. The truth here is one or all of the three, we are totally ignorant of what you did, we have total amnesia, or we know but we are lying.

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

 

[AutisticBez]

Both sides put out propaganda. You have to find the truth somewhere in the middle. "Such and such broke ceasefire" is definitely propaganda. "Such and such won't let civilians escape the city", also that's propaganda.

Multiple times I have seen fake news. It's usually done with using wrong video with incorrect details. I see it every day on western media.

 

[RedSnake]

Yes both sides do, but Russia's one hundred year old propaganda machine does it better then anything else, because they need it without it Putin wouldn't be able to be where he is.
Ukraina doesn't need to use that amount of propaganda because there government have the support of it's people and most of the rest of the world.
And for the western commercialized media, I agree it just pushes what makes the most money.
But that doesn't make any difference to the fact that Putin ruins and destroys Russia and the future of it's people for his own gain and ego, and he uses the Russian youth as gun fodder to do it and in the process targeting and killing innocents people, women and children both Russians and Ukrainians and all others alike.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Nukeman948]

"Such and such broke ceasefire" is definitely propaganda.

It is impossible to look at a simple quote like your two examples, and know if it is propaganda or not. They could just as easily be completely factual. You need to compare what is said with what is known or can be proven as facts by looking at other sources. You need to dig a lot deeper into many news articles to find the truth. All news has some bias from the person or organization that wrote it by emphasizing certain details and leaving out other details or just using more inflammatory or provocative words. The whole point of propaganda is to mislead you or simply steer your opinion in a certain direction without you knowing you are being deceived.

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[1503-44]

"Propaganda" is the word used in Colombian Spanish to refer to normal commercial advertising.exactly as Americans use the word "commercials". It has no political inference.

During Vietnam era short wave Radio stations "Radio Moscow", Romania's "Radio Sophia" and "Radio Havana" pumped out propaganda 24/7. Main topics were the evils of capitalism and the VN war. Back then I used to think they were 100% wrong. Looking back today I figure they were about 50% right on both subjects.

"Such and such won't let civilians escape the city", True, or False.
Ask yourself test questions, such as, "If that's true, then why do thousands have to wait for a humanitarian corridor to be agreed before they will try to leave and get on the road?. Because I don't see people or cars leaving on the roads. All the cars I see are destroyed. Or if that's false, they will let civilians leave, why is nobody on the road. Then work out the logical answer, Nobody is on the roads. They like getting bombed? Well, they just spoke to people under a bombed theater that said they were trying to leave." So, which is it? They like getting bombed, no water, no food, or they can't go? Why don't I see people leaving in busses. They're all hiding underground. That makes no sense. Don't let what you see here or there form your opinions and ideas. Let those come from your logic tests.

Now I go by, "If you don't constantly update your facts and sometimes change your ideas, maybe your facts are wrong."

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

 

[RedSnake]

One issue that is in progress is that when springs comes and last years old dry grass turns up there is a huge risk for wild fires, before the grass and leafages becomes green and with bombings and lots of vehicles around the risk is even higher for a fire then usual and if the fires can't be put out in time it is a risk to the nuclear plant too.

IAEA: Firefighters were trying to extinguish wildfires near Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant, Ukraine told the IAEA. Slight increases in caesium air rallys detected in Kyiv and at two nuclear power plants, but they did not pose significant radiological concerns, it said

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[bones206]

There's also this:

Combat operations are ongoing in the area of the NSI “Neutron Source” location.

According to the information received from the operating organization (NRC KIPT), following the results of the NSI “Neutron Source” site examination conducted on 22-23 March 2022, the personnel:

- detected an object preliminarily qualified as an unexploded rocket of the multiple launch rocket system 9K58 “Smerch”, which poses a potential danger of a new explosion in the immediate vicinity of the nuclear installation

https://snriu.gov.ua/en/news/update...subcritical-installation-neutron-source-state

 

[SwinnyGG]

Yeah uh how about what you left out

"confirmed the absence of damage to systems/components and the NSI “Neutron Source” buildings, pumping and cooling towers buildings, isotope laboratory, which would affect safety, but numerous damages to windows and external surface of buildings were identified."

 

[Nukeman948]

There's also this:

[quote="...the NSI “Neutron Source”, which is located on the site of the National Research Center "Kharkiv Institute of Physics and Technology" (Kharkiv), was under bombing. As a result, building structures of the NSI “Neutron Source” suffered minor damage." ][/quote]
Is there any chance you could give us a bit more of a heads up that you are now jumping to completely different nuclear sites that are not related to the power plants in any way? This is a research center that is not likely to pose the same kinds of risks as the power plants.

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[bones206]

SwinnyGG - I didn’t think the second paragraph describing current damage was relevant to the unexploded bomb that was found, since the potential explosion would cause damage in the future. I also provided the link to the full update so its not like I was hiding anything.

Nukeman948 - I get where you are coming from, but this site has been monitored and widely reported on in conjunction with the commercial reactors in Ukraine. Just trying to show the complete scope of what is happening.

 

[bones206]

Someone did some simulations on fallout from a hypothetical meltdown at Zaporizhzhya.

https://thebulletin.org/2022/03/cou...k_AttackOnUkrainianNuclearFacilities_03232022

 

[RedSnake]

I think he meant that maybe we should start of with saying which site we are referring to.
Like Chernobyl, Zaporizhian or the Kharkiv Institute of Physics and Technology.
It is just to make it less confusing.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[SwinnyGG]

SwinnyGG - I didn’t think the second paragraph describing current damage was relevant to the unexploded bomb that was found, since the potential explosion would cause damage in the future. I also provided the link to the full update so its not like I was hiding anything.

I'm not trying to imply that you're being deceptive.. but you seem to be in a very alarmist state of mind. In my opinion, overly so. You said yourself this problem that's 6,000 miles away is keeping you up at night. I think we all agree it's a problem... but man there's only so much you can do from here.

 

[RedSnake]

About that the Swedish authority held a press conference where they sade there where no need for anyone running of buying potassium iodide pills.
They have them for everyone who lives in a 100 km area around any of our nuclear plants, so they will distribut them if needed.

The thing with them is that they only work if you take in a curtain time frame from the eventuell outlet.

So if you are far enough away the doses of radiation are not high enough so the pills can do you more bad then good, the amount you take must be equal to the amount you want to get ride of so to speak.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[RedSnake]

Plea from someone.. as it is..

Iryna Vereshchuk
‼ ️Please spread this appeal so that the leaders of the countries on which the fate of the entire civilized world depends today will finally decide to make the only right decision.

The occupiers continue to militarize the Chernobyl exclusion zone. This poses a very serious risk of damaging the insulation structures built over the station's fourth unit after its 1986 explosion. Such damage will inevitably lead to the entry into the atmosphere of a significant amount of radioactive dust and contaminate not only Ukraine but also other European countries.

The occupiers ignored these threats, continuing to transport and store a significant amount of ammunition in the immediate vicinity of the nuclear power plant. Through the city of Pripyat, a few hundred meters from the isolation facilities of nuclear power plants, the Russian occupiers transport tens of tons of rockets, shells and mortar ammunition every day. Hundreds of tons of ammunition are being stored in the neighboring city of Pripyat Chernobyl, which is also a short distance from the nuclear power plant.

It should be noted that recently the Russian occupation forces are increasingly using old and substandard ammunition, which increases the risk of their detonation even during loading and transportation. The facts of such self-detonation of ammunition in Russian military depots and arsenals are well known and occur regularly.

In addition, significant fires have started in the exclusion zone, which can have very serious consequences. However, today it is impossible to control and extinguish fires in full due to the capture of the exclusion zone by the Russian occupation forces.

As a result of combustion, radionuclides are released into the atmosphere, which the wind can carry over long distances, which threatens radiation not only in Ukraine but also in other European countries. Loss of control over the exclusion zone and the inability to fully extinguish the fire could threaten radiation facilities in the area.

This week saw a complete rotation of Chernobyl personnel, who spent more than 600 hours at their jobs, bravely performing their duties under pressure from the occupiers. In exchange for these workers, 59 specialists, including six women, agreed to go to the Chernobyl nuclear power plant to perform duties to maintain the safe operation of Chernobyl facilities. We consider all of them hostages of the occupiers.

In the context of nuclear security, the irresponsible and unprofessional actions of the Russian military pose a very serious threat not only to Ukraine but also to hundreds of millions of Europeans.

Therefore, we demand that the UN Security Council take immediate measures to demilitarize the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone and establish a special UN mission to eliminate the risk of a recurrence of the Chernobyl accident as a result of the actions of Russian occupation forces!

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Nukeman948]

Plea from someone.. as it is..

Someone? Iryna Vereshchuk is the Deputy Prime Minister with the Ministry of Reintegration for Ukraine. I'm not sure why you wouldn't post that information or that this was posted on Telegram and a few questionable sites. As such it is likely to have a bit of bias and exaggeration. Good propaganda always includes some true statements but it would seem to be difficult to verify anything that was posted about it because the area is still under Russian control.

As for the fires, most fire fighting activities would also increase the amount of radioactive contamination becoming airborne just like when the occupying forces moved in but didn't stay on the roads. Without knowing the scope of the fires and their locations it is impossible to determine if trying to put them out would be better or worse than letting them burn. As the situation is, we have no control over what happens.

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[RedSnake]

Iryna Vereshchuk is the Deputy Prime Minister with the Ministry of Reintegration for Ukraine. I'm not sure why you wouldn't post that information or that this was posted on Telegram and a few questionable sites.

I didn't because I was lazy and it was late (meaning I didn't try to find out who this was) thought I do it today but now I don't have to.
And I did translate it from Ukrainian to English, and I am sorry I should have wrote, take it for what it is.. instead that is what I meant.

As such it is likely to have a bit of bias and exaggeration.

Yes it might or it might not..

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

They had huge fires there in 2020 and the wind was blowing towards Kyiv it really put a lot of pollution in the air but we were told that the dose rate was still under limits.

It was during COVID lockdown 1 so nobody was traveling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_...t one suspect was arrested for alleged arson.

Any luck there won't be much fuel for them. Plus the wind is blowing towards moscow just now.

Russian troops are going to get a dose though.

this is a sat pic from 2020

 

[RedSnake]

And now it is burning again 4 km west of Chernobyl NPP..

https://twitter.com/bradyafr/status/1508515514724896771

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[bones206]

The IAEA director has arrived in Ukraine:

https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/IAEA-s-Grossi-in-Ukraine-for-nuclear-safety-talks

My cynical expectation is that this is mostly a dog and pony show, but I'm cautiously optimistic that it's a sign of de-escalation and a return of some degree of stability.