Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 17 14

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 13
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 14
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 15
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 16


SF Charlie
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[Reverse_Bias]

Oh great now they're taking core samples, after it's been sitting out rotting for a year. Glad to see they're doing a thorough scientific bureaucratic investigation.

 

[FJBnomics]

Oh great now they're taking core samples, after it's been sitting out rotting for a year. Glad to see they're doing a thorough scientific bureaucratic investigation.

It's all about the 'Political' Science!

 

[sgw1009]

I notice from Jeff's picture above that a large portion of the western end of the south wall has also been removed.

 

[MaudSTL]

Ed: Also watched Building Integrity's video but there's not any new information there, it's just a sum-up. Though I do agree (and I see you waded into the cesspit of Youtube comments to say so there as well) that his selection of 911 call audio is unfair.

I see Josh Porter’s use of Security Guard Shamoka Furman’s aborted first 911 call and his associated comments as worse than unfair; it’s downright dangerous. Anyone who has seen any of her video interviews knows that Shamoka, like all the survivors, has PTSD. PTSD increases the likelihood of health issues and suicide, especially in women. To add public humiliation to the burden of PTSD is cruel and unconscionable.

Josh Porter needs to take that video down and correct the misinformation in it that has triggered hate speech in his channel. I hope he has the decency to do it before Shamoka sees it, or he’ll need a new name for his YouTube channel, like Building Damage or Building Harm or Building Liability…or maybe just Punching Down.

Sorry…I had to get that off my chest. What he did is truly outrageous.

 

[Reverse_Bias]

People need to keep in mind nobody new the building was about to collapse or how long it would be until it collapsed. That's 20/20 hindsight.

A lot of people would have taken more than 7 minutes to get out. The fire alarm in my building went off a few weeks back in the middle of the night and I was one of the first out about 6 minutes later. People don't treat it like it's certain death. They try to sleep through it assuming it will stop, then gather their phone, keys, pets, change clothes ect.

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

sgw1009, the red box you showed on my photo, the site was like that in September 2021 already long before they started invasive testing.

 

[IanCA]

I notice from Jeff's picture above that a large portion of the western end of the south wall has also been removed.

Yes, you are correct.

the site was like that in September 2021 already long before they started invasive testing.

No, I'm sorry that is incorrect. For example, please refer to your video that premiered on Nov 6, 2021 (video recorded Oct 26, 2021).
Link

Please count the wall sections West of the pool.

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

Yes, Sections M and L are missing.

Here is my photo from March 19, when they were still there.

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

I'll be premiering my video tonight showing all of the close-ups and numerous photographs that I shot at the Champlain towers site on Friday, where we were given access to the site itself due to the remembrance ceremony that they had. But here's a sneak peek of one of my screenshots from the video showing all of the holes drilled right around the pool and the column number 37, look at the top of the South wall where they have taken numerous core samples and then sliced off a few entire panels of the wall.

 

[MaudSTL]

Friends, I am working on Witness Statement Timeline updates resulting from all the articles published because of the one-year anniversary. We have already discussed everything here that I plan to add.

Unless anyone has strong objections, I have decided to incorporate the few timestamps we have from the fire alarm system log into the High Level Sequence tab and the Detailed Data tab, even though they are not witness statements per se. I think that if I separate them into their own tab, it will just be more confusing.

I am also thinking about updating the High Level Sequence tab to include the Zions, who are currently mentioned only in the Detailed Data tab. I didn’t include them in that tab previously because they had nothing to report. However, in the last year no one has interviewed them to see if that’s really the case. So I am thinking the High Level Sequence tab would be improved by being more comprehensive. Therefore I plan to add the Zions and also the mysterious Woman with a Suitcase mentioned long ago in the ESPN piece.

 

[IanCA]

Here is my photo from March 19, when they were still there.

Thank you for finding and sharing that Jeff, much appreciated.

I'll be premiering my video tonight showing all of the close-ups and numerous photographs that I shot at the Champlain towers site on Friday

Thank you.

Friends, I am working on Witness Statement Timeline updates resulting from all the articles published because of the one-year anniversary

Thank you MaudSTL, I support your suggested changes.

 

[Nukeman948]

Unless anyone has strong objections, I have decided to incorporate the few timestamps we have from the fire alarm system log into the High Level Sequence tab and the Detailed Data tab...

I do have a question on your post from 24 Jun 22 19:01: We have long believed that sprinkler water flow was the first trigger for the fire alarm system. I wasn't sure if it had been confirmed that the lobby pull station was activated and not a water flow switch. Are we relying on the news media accurately disseminating information from the fire alarm log?
I haven't seen any information on the timing of any water flow activation, which seems strange. It is also possible that, since sprinkler pipes are often made from steel pipes and fittings and not cast iron pipes, that they may have bent and not broken. Therefore, there may not have been any water flow in the sprinkler system until the main building collapse.

Edit: Right after I posted that I realized it is very unlikely that those pipes would bend without knocking off a few sprinkler heads so it is even more puzzling why there was no water flow reported.

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[Reverse_Bias]

Therefore, there may not have been any water flow in the sprinkler system until the main building collapse.

There was a pipe gushing and swinging around in the Tiktok video that a few people said was probably a sprinkler pipe.

 

[Sym P. le]

One Button Could Have ‘Saved More Lives’ in Florida Condo Collapse (this is an archived version, so no subscription required)

Given the latest eyewitness account from Paolo Longobardi (309) on the third floor, “It was like a wave coming from the right to the left — from the south to the north — and it was falling.” The south perimeter wall is again brought into question.

Given that the Longobardi's were awakened by "... something more unsettling: an unnatural, metallic crunch.", had the lobby parking already collapsed before they reached their balcony so that they only witnessed the balance of the south pool deck advance from south to north? There are alway more questions.

With Jeff's new pan of the south wall, I've done a collage using screen shots to compare the shadowing with the Allyn Kilsheimer images referenced some time ago. Attached is a full scale jpg.

 

[MaudSTL]

Are we relying on the news media accurately disseminating information from the fire alarm log?

The time stamps and other fire alarm system info come from multiple sources that include an industry rag and two news orgs. The first two feature the same forensic alarm pro. You will see that there’s inconsistency in the issue of the lobby pull switch vs. sprinkler question that I just picked by doing this updating exercise. Jeffrey Zwirn, the Miami Herald, and the NYT all have the alarm system log.
1. Life-Safety Lessons Learned From the Miami Condo Collapse by Jeffrey Zwirn, Feb. 2, 2022
[ul]
[li]“Prior to the catastrophe, Champlain Towers had contracted with an alarm contractor that replaced the existing building fire alarm system with a new voice evacuation fire alarm system. Among other things, it included common-area smoke detectors, manual pull stations, voice evacuation speakers inside each of the apartments and in the common areas throughout the premises, and a remote alarm annunciator located in proximity to the 24-hour guard station in the lobby.”[/li]
[li]“It appears that a manual fire alarm pull station in the lobby of the building was activated before the collapse. Against the foregoing backdrop, issues surrounding liability have arisen due to myriad reports that persons who were able to get out of the building and escape before it collapsed never heard the building fire alarm system activating through its voice evacuation function.”[/li]
[li]“Preliminary forensic examination of the central station’s account history report reveals that prior to the building collapse, the fire alarm system was in trouble, and a supervisory condition existed. The underpinnings of what part(s) of the fire alarm system was not functioning correctly and why it had not been restored to a functional mode through performing service on the system is continuing forensically.” [/li]
[/ul]

‘2. Lives would have been saved’: Fire alarm didn’t go off before Surfside tower collapse June 27, 2022
[ul]
[li]“The Herald exclusively obtained a “customer activity report” for Champlain Towers’ alarm system. It shows that a fire alarm signal was recorded at 1:15 a.m. and that the building’s alarm monitoring company, Central Alarm Control, called 911 soon after. The initial triggering of the alarm system should have set off loud alarms in the entire tower, said Jeffrey Zwirn, a forensic alarm expert who reviewed the report and records about Champlain Towers’ fire system. Zwirn said that the collapse of the pool deck — which video shows ripped open pipes — would have automatically activated the alarm system when it damaged the sprinkler system. “That should then have triggered a voice-evacuation alarm in every unit,” Zwirn said, adding that the system may have been improperly programmed.”[/li]
[li]“Hallandale Beach-based Premier Fire Alarms and Integration Systems installed the system in 2017.”[/li]
[li]“Police body-camera footage from several minutes after the tower collapsed appears to show a strobing light going off in the lobby and another in the garage. Albert Aguero said that flashing lights on fire alarms and exit signs helped him and his family navigate their way out of the building after the collapse. But the devices never produced sounds…”[/li]
[li]In 2020, “Champlain Towers’ management emailed residents that a recent false alarm in the middle of the night was caused by “a faulty pull station located in the lobby area.””[/li]
[li]“When the pool deck collapsed, resident Sara Nir was in the building lobby. Panicked, she told the security guard to activate a pull station. It’s not clear if that pull station was the same one that had malfunctioned the year before. The customer activity report shows only one fire alarm signal going to the alarm company — and there’s no indication whether that signal came from the pull station or from the sprinkler system in the garage.”[/li]
[/ul]
3. One Button Could Have ‘Saved More Lives’ in Florida Condo Collapse June 23, 2022
[ul]
[li]“The building also had a sophisticated audio warning system designed to broadcast an alert into the bedrooms of every unit. But it was never triggered, newly available deposition testimony and interviews show, because the security guard had never been trained about the system and the single button needed to activate it.“[/li]
[li]After the deck collapsed, “…the building’s alarm system was starting to activate, first at 1:15:29 a.m., when it signaled “trouble,” according to a data log. Seventeen seconds later, a fire alarm triggered. It sent out an automated alert to a monitoring company, though it is not clear that it generated an audible alarm on any floor. Soon after, a staff member at the monitoring company notified 911 that a fire alarm had been activated at Champlain Towers.” NOTE from Maud: I calculated the time of the Fire alarm at 1:32. The time of Shamoka’s 911 calls and the Central Alarm Control call came from the 911 call log.[/li]
[/ul]

>>>>>Edit: I personally believe the lobby pull switch wasn’t working, but that Shamoka pulled it on orders from Sara Nir. I mean, if you had Sara Nir barking orders at you, you would pull the switch too. I think that the Fire alarm that got logged came from the garage after the Trouble code got logged. But I would like your thoughts on this interpretation.<<<<<

 

[MaudSTL]

Given that the Lontobaridi's were awakened by "... something more unsettling: an unnatural, metallic crunch.", had the lobby parking already collapsed before they reached their balcony so that they only witnessed the balance of the south pool deck advance from south to north?

The article says that they watched the deck collapse from their window after having been awakened by a sound like thunder. I think what woke them up was the loud crash at 1:10. That would give them time to go WTF, get out of bed, and go to the window in time for the metallic crunch and the progressive collapse.

If the metallic crunch had gotten them out of bed, the deck would already have been collapsed by the time they got to the window.

>>>>>Edit: The weird part to me is the metallic crunch. Everyone else calls it a very loud crash. This is the first time we’re hearing metallic crunch.<<<<<

 

[Sym P. le]

Longobardi's vantage point from their deck in front of their bedroom sliding door, unit #309.

Edit: Just to be clearer, the master bedroom is at the south end of the unit so I moved the arrow.

 

[MaudSTL]

Oh wow. Metallic crunch could be the cars crushing each other. I was once a service director at a car dealership, and we would rejoice at the metallic crunch of fender benders because it meant work for the body shop.

 

[Nukeman948]

...a few people said was probably a sprinkler pipe.

Are you gonna believe what "a few people say" or make up your own mind based on what is easily observed. I believe that was a drain pipe based on its size and low pressure flow rate and direction of flow in the tiktok video. The largest sprinkler pipe in that area was a 2". It was fed with a loop system and would have flowed from both directions @ 170psi. The fire pump should have been running at that time (if there was a broken sprinkler) and puts out 750 gpm. The water in the tiktok video did not flow like a broken sprinkler pipe.

I could be wrong.
Tell me what you think.

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[Sym P. le]

The weird part to me is the metallic crunch.

Thunder, he thought. But his wife, Anastasiya, had heard something more unsettling: an unnatural, metallic crunch.

The two of them, groggy with sleep, peered out the sliding glass door of their bedroom overlooking the pool. Below them, the pool deck was caving in.

... so they didn't even make it out on to their deck but I read the awakening as "he heard thunder, she heard metallic crunching." Then they looked and he saw the pool deck caving in from south to north.

If they were not on their deck and she heard metallic crunching, they weren't in a position to witness the lobby parking visually. That suggests the lobby parking area went first, followed by the pool deck.