Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II 24

[dik]

For earlier thread, see

thread1618-496010

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

...per capita is the only way to measure carbon footprint; it shows where the excesses are... India for example has a large carbon footprint, but when you look at it from a per capita basis, it's relatively small...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

collectively, it's a measure of how well a country is doing at looking after their output... no rocket science to that.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[WARose]

The problem with the whole per capita argument is: it's pretty misleading. We in the USA do have a pretty big footprint per person. But the USA is about 15% of the world's total emissions. Too much of the commentary going on makes it seem like the whole thing hinges on us. It doesn't. We need to be doing our part (no doubt about it)....but the USA could disappear and this problem would still be there. Everyone (all nations) have to commit to this.

 

[dik]

I think the per capita approach clearly shows where the problems are... it prevents a country from using the excuse that a country with 10x the population is outputting twice the carbon and we are using that as an example for not doing anything. The US should be setting the example; as it stands, even their courts are presently preventing this.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

"collectively, it's a measure of how well a country is doing at looking after their output... no rocket science to that."

and yet Canada fails and yet Canada is doing something to help (sure, not enough for some)

Should Iceland be charged with the emissions from airlines flying tourists to Iceland ? and shipping bringing goods to Iceland
or are these charged to the states that own the planes and ships ?

it's not rocket science. it is a simple statistic that flattens a very complex situation down to a simple number,
to (IMHO) send a message look how bad the developed nations (and particularly NA nations) are.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[dik]

I suspect that's something that will drastically change in the future... There will likely come a time, in the not too distant future, when we will no longer to put up with these excesses.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[WARose]

I think the per capita approach clearly shows where the problems are... it prevents a country from using the excuse that a country with 10x the population is outputting twice the carbon and we are using that as an example for not doing anything. The US should be setting the example; as it stands, their courts are presently preventing this.

Why can't the producers of 85% of the world's emissions set an example? And furthermore, this still gets played like it all depends on us. I've seen all sorts of news articles saying Joe Manchin has "doomed" the planet and so on. Sorry, but that's just not the case. Other nations have to do their part. No way we can fix this by ourselves.

 

[dik]

What's this 85% stuff? It looks like...

I'm sorry I don't have more recent numbers. Twice the output with 5 4x the population. The 2018 numbers are 8.0 for China and 16.1 for the US.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[WARose]

What's this 85% stuff?

Right here:

https://edgar.jrc.ec.europa.eu/report_2020

And actually (as of 2019) we are at 13.4% of the world's total emissions.

 

[dik]

Thanks... good reference, too.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[GregLocock]

"you'll hate on the website"

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Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[dik]

More recent data than I had...

China is trying to catch up, but the US is still ahead; now, by less than a factor of two. The US pretty much remains the same... no reduction.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

I concur... Canada and the UK have dropped a tad (we're no longer ahead of Australia), and we have a way to go. China is increasing, but in the 3 years betwen 2016 and 2019 the US has remained the same. At the same time in China, in the last 30 years they have moved about 70% of their population from below the 'poverty line'. No matter how you cut it, it is not looking good, and almost no improvement on the horizon.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Tomfh]

collectively, it's a measure of how well a country is doing at looking after their output... no rocket science to that.

per capita emissions don't reflect a country's commitment to reducing emissions, they reflect its economic status. This is why the more honest climate activists are calling for the end of industrialized first world society.

 

[dik]

That's definitely not CO[sub]2[/sub] per capita...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Tomfh]

That's definitely not CO2 per capita

What do you mean?

 

[dik]

The sizes are all wrong... the area of the sphere for the US would be twice that of China and the area for India would be about 1/10... this is even correct based on the new information provided by WARose...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Tomfh]

The sizes are all wrong... the area of the sphere for the US would be twice that of China

The size of the sphere is population, but that’s not really the point of the graph. The graph is showing you GDP (x axis) vs. per capita emission (y axis). The relationship is very linear. Rich countries = high per capita emissions. Poor countries = low per capita emissions. I.e. per capita emissions is primarily a reflection of how economically developed a country is, not a reflection of how well a country is managing its emissions.

 

[dik]

The important thing is the carbon footprint, and the graph should clearly show that, not obfuscate things... What's happening in the Netherlands may be indicative of things to come worldwide... not sure, but possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ers-fight-back-against-huge-cuts-to-livestock

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

sigh, this it the thing with statistics. You can create whatever statistic you want to demonstrate whatever you want.

Australia and Canada may be the highest per capita being possibly the smallest in population, and the largest in landmass, developed nations.
But this doesn't mean that Australia and Canada are the evil villains of the piece (as a representative of both populations I'd be doubly damned).
The magnitude of their output (pollution?) needs to be taken into account. Though I think Australia's coal exports should be taken into account.

Coal is clearly the worst FF to burn, so measures should be taken to reduce/minimise/prohibit? it. The problem is it's a cheap fuel.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?