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Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VIII 9

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dik

dik

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Apr 13, 2001
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-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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See Sheldon Whitehouse being schooled by a lady who does not have to read her answers to all the questions he reads. Pertinent to this thread is how she shows that wind and solar power are increasing emissions because the equipment is being manufactured using Chinese coal power.

 
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None of what you say makes sense, dik. Until you or the Government can answer questions like the ones Senator Kennedy asked the Deputy Energy Secretary in the link which BridgeSmith posted 4 May 15:34, spending billions makes no sense. Like the Deputy Secretary, in your "heart of hearts" is not reason to destroy our economies.
 
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The ex CEO on the Snowy2 hydro scheme blasts any ambition of 80% renewables by 2030 out of the water. He thinks it would take 80 years to build that out. Bowen is Minister for Unicorn Power.


Here's a not very readable transcript

l, we've said this line a number of times Don't jump off the boat until you've reached the shore. And we say it about Australia's dramatic switch to renewable energy, where switching off coal at rapid rates. The backup plan isn't ready to go just yet. Take the massive hydro energy project Snowy 2.0. It's long been promised to store enough energy for 3 million homes. The project is disastrously delayed and overbudget. The former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull, said in 2017 it would be up and running by 2021. Now they're saying 2029. It's gone from a $2 billion price tag to 10 billion, including all of the linked transmission lines. I wanted to have a chat to someone who knows about this backwards. His name is Paul Broad. He's one of Australia's leading experts on infrastructure. Now, Paul Broad was the CEO of Snowy 2.0 for a decade, but his tenure ended shortly after Chris Bowen became the federal Energy Minister. Paul Broad delivered Mr. Bowen some home truths about how the project was going. He was sent packing shortly after. Or maybe he decided to leave. Paul Broad, the former boss of Snowy 2.0, is on the line. Paul, thanks for joining us.

01:16
S2
Thanks. My pleasure. Ben. Did you leave or were you shoved?

01:20
S3
I put a combination of other words filtering down. In fact, I think when Bowen's elected that, you know, I was dead in the water, so I was only a matter of time, but I formally I formally resigned.

01:31
S1
Why were you dead in the water? What was it that was such a sticking point between where you stand and where Chris Bowen stood?

01:38
S2
Oh, a series of things.

01:40
S3
Particularly the gas plant at Kurri Kurri. Angus Taylor and I were very strong that you needed gas to keep the lights on gas. And we had more gas in NSW than we know what to do with. We need gas. So when the sun's not shining, when's not blowing Gas hydro are incredibly important and Chris Bowen was against, was against Kerikeri. Then he said, we're going to run, carry, carry 30% on hydrogen. There is no hydrogen in the heart and there won't be for another 1020 years at the earliest.

02:12
S1
You were just trying to help, right?

02:14
S3
Well, yeah, trying to help. I think in the in the 18 months leading up to it in the Senate estimates, the parliament is asking us lots of these sort of questions. So you got a sense of where Chris was coming from and that's his political view. I respect that. I just didn't agree with it. And there's no point being somewhere if you don't agree with it.

02:33
S1
You could have just drunk the Kool aid and said, Oh yeah, no, this is going to be the answer to all of our problems. It'll be able to carry the load. But you were being realistic and he didn't want to hear it.

02:43
S3
Yeah. Plus the fact the notion that you can have 80% renewable in our system by 2030 is to use the vernacular, the news vernacular. Yes, it's bullshit.

02:53
S2
It's bullshit.

02:54
S3
You can't. And the truth is, we need this transition. If it ever occurs, it will take 80 years, not eight. So there's massive changes need to occur. And I'm deeply concerned about the rush. The notion that somehow this is all magic. I'm going to wave a magic wand. We'll close a big baseload power plant. It's kept our lights on for years of my life and we're just going to close them and all these alternatives out there. Well, it's not. I can be absolutely 100% certain it's not available. And the transmission lines are miles late. 2.0, which is a part of the thing, is late. Like you need I think their own reports tell them you'll need at least eight, 82.0 to see their gold. That's 80 years, not eight.

03:37
S1
Let's just have a look at 2.0. So the biggest issue is these giant tunnelling machines. They weigh 2000 tonnes. They keep falling through the soft ground. Do we know how far along this project is? Is it halfway beyond? Halfway?

03:50
S3
Yeah. Look, look, I've got to defend 2.0. It was a huge part of my creation, and I'm quite proud of the the attempt to build a big pumped hydro. But it's complex. These tunnel boring machines have got to drill through, you know, heaps of rock. There's 28km of tunnels, 11m diameter. So and one of them's got actually bore uphill. So I've got to come in and get access to a cabin and then you've got bullet out of cabin which is 400m long kilometre under the mountain. So the complexity of this thing is enormous. So I'm not surprised that we've got delays. I suppose what worries me more is the lack of transmission. So you have this big power plant. It says no, used to. You haven't got a transmission line out the front to run it into the and where the people are. So the lack of transmission is going to be a big, big problem for us. The lack of transmission being because renewables, you know, the power plants we have are just up the road here and the hunter, all these new renewables are out west or somewhere else. There's no there's no power lines to get it here. So the notion you can have all this occurring without transmission and all the other investment which will cost the customer and the consumers a lot, the suggestion you can do all that and price. Is going to come down. It's just wrong. It's absolutely wrong. It's misleading. It's false. And suggest to keep suggesting that. I think eventually, eventually, you know, the average punter wakes up and there will be a there'll be a reaction.

05:15
S1
We're listening to Paul Broad, the former boss of Snowy 2.0, just on the timeline. I actually had a meeting with someone who's associated with the project about a month or so ago, and I said, What's going on with this thing? Because, you know, we were told it would be done by 2021 and now you're talking about 2027. And then they said to me, Oh, it might be late 20, 27. And I said, Well, that sounds to me like 20, 28. Now they're saying December 20th, 29. When I hear December 20th, 29, I think 2030. Realistically, when's it going to be done?

05:46
S2
Well, the.

05:47
S3
Transmission line is 27, so I suspect they'll get first power. I suspect now we're going, you know, something else will happen. I think the challenges for building it are still in front of them. You know, the biggest challenge they have for this whole project still to come. So there's lots of risk with it yet. But I suspect, given the fudges, the engineers do you know, I suspect the end of 27, middle 27, that sort of time frame. But then there's no point having it if the transmission line. So we've got to work out. Someone has got to tell us when are the farmers are going to agree to run the power lines over their properties, When are they going to agree to pay the farmers a reasonable annual sum to access their property and run the lines over their property? When all that's agreed and they work out the direction these things are going to come, You know, we haven't upgraded them in 50 years, let alone, let alone in five.

06:35
S2
So we've spoken.

06:36
S1
To some of those farmers and they're worried because they say, you know, they've got to knock down all of these trees to put the lines in. We're worried about bushfires. And the other issue is just that old line. It's my land. It's my property.

06:47
S2
Absolutely.

06:48
S3
And what happened? The truth of it, they had all these these shiny assets from Sydney Rock up to the farms. And so I'm going to put a power line over your property. Well, the farmer said, Get lost. You're not coming on my property as valuable. It is. It is their livelihood. It is what they live for. So they didn't they got off to a really bad start. All the people around Tumut and Gundagai, all those people are now up in arms because these things have got to be done right. You've got to sit down and you've got to be able to be flexible about the direction you go to minimise the impact on farmers. There's some power lines going right over the farmers house, so there's, you know, there's still a lot of work to be done on the transmission. There's still a lot of work to be done in 2.0 reports out saying you're going to need lots of 2.0. So it's really just the start of the journey. It's not it's not the end. And the I think the the notion that we can close these plants, you know, we can't Iran cannot close. Cannot close. Even now we're closing Liddell. We're on a knife's edge. You watch when it gets really hot or really cold, just how tight it gets in New South Wales if the lights don't go out, I'll be awfully surprised.

07:50
S1
A couple of quick ones. One of the private contractors went into administration in December. We've heard there are still unpaid bills to both workers and and to ongoing construction.

07:59
S3
Yeah, the contract has got a lot to answer for. And let me just I don't want to go in and go on here and beg the contractor, but they've got a lot to answer for. And I think they were trying gamed by not paying the local small contractors. And certainly when I was there, I was prepared to go and pay the contractors ourselves and then extract it from the contract. The big contractor later, I mean, they the major contractor has safety problems. The tragically lost to life down there a week or so ago. Um, the contractor has a lot of a lot, a lot of a lot of questions to answer. They're under a fixed price contract, so the price shouldn't be going up. But they are they're on a performance based contract and not performing. You sort of there is some big question marks and Cluff going broke halfway? Well, a month or 12 months ago, it's been a big problem. The guys were integral part of delivering it. So they've got a contractor, has a has a huge challenge in front of them and they've got huge questions to ask.

08:55
S1
Just on question marks, were were you hiding some of the delays from Chris Bowen? Because I see in the Financial Review, a spokeswoman for Mr. Bowen told the Financial Review that it was no secret that the Government was disappointed in the hiding of delays to major energy projects by the former government, including Snowy Hydro 2.0.

09:17
S2
That is just.

09:18
S3
Bullshit. The first meeting with Bowen, my first meeting with Bowen, he asked me and I said yeah, at 12 to 18 months when I was with last meeting of Angus, which was back in April when the contractor walked into Angus's office and said that we think going to be delaying going to the cost increase. Angus kicked him out of the office and said it's got to be delivered on time and on budget. That's the truth. I mean, what why does his office on this political spin, what is he trying to do?

09:43
S2
I mean, fake income, but just tell the truth.

09:45
S3
It's really easy in life. I find if you tell the truth, you can remember it. You're going to get yourself in too much trouble.

09:51
S1
I said at the start of my introduction, that line that a talkback caller said to me once about the switch to renewables Don't jump off the boat. Until you've reached the shore. Can you reflect on that for a moment before we say goodbye?

10:04
S2
Yeah, that's absolutely true.

10:05
S3
We can't make this transition to we absolutely convinced we what we've got. The alternative is going to work. There's going to be at a price point that it won't kill the economy. At the moment, we've got neither of those.

10:16
S1
Mark Colvin you say the idea of getting to 80% renewables by 2030 is complete BS. You say closer to 80 years?

10:23
S2
Yeah, well, you've got to build these things. You know, transmission lines.

10:26
S3
They say their own reports say you'll need 82.0 or their equivalents 12.1, 2.8, eight, ten years. So get eight. I can do my math. It's got to be 80, 70. So you'll be another generation before anything like.

10:42
S2
Anything like.

10:42
S3
What they're talking about occurs.

10:44
S1
We know it's never too late to learn a lesson. What would you say to Chris Bowen if he's listening this morning?

10:51
S2
Oh, take a big good and take.

10:52
S3
A big, deep breath. You know, you're a minister now. You've got responsibilities. You've got to you've got to put it all on the line and you've got to be you've got you've got to be honest to everybody about it.

11:02
S1
We really appreciate you coming on the line. You haven't mucked about. You're pulling no punches this morning. And we appreciate that, Paul.

11:08
S2
Thanks, Ben.

11:09
S1
Paul Broad, the former boss of Snowy 2.0. And I can only imagine the reaction in Chris Bowen's office right now. They won't be liking what they're hearing, but it sounds to me like he's just given a unfiltered view of Snowy 2.0 and also the transition to renewables. And you heard what he said about the government's targets, RBS. And he didn't put it the way I just put it then. He's also weighed into the other issue, which is just so obvious about needing to keep our major coal plant open. That is something that Chris Minns. Entertained during the election campaign. And thankfully since winning the election, he suggested that that is a must, that he's got to work out how we can keep the supply going and keep the prices low. And the discussions are underway with the operators. Like what you're hearing.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
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I suspect Victoria in Oz is going that way. However the state currently only offers rebates on replacing electric water heaters with solar/gas so we're going the other way at the moment.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
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...and with time, maybe a few others.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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Greg said:
Paul Broad, the former boss of Snowy 2.0. And I can only imagine the reaction in Chris Bowen's office right now. They won't be liking what they're hearing, but it sounds to me like he's just given a unfiltered view of Snowy 2.0 and also the transition to renewables.
Click to expand...

Bowen is a nasty piece of work. Spruiking his utter nonsense of 80% by 2030, and destroying anyone who points out that it's impossible.
 
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5:1 caused by humans. That means with a match, not climate change.
 
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Another hot spot:

"Vietnam has recorded its highest ever temperature, just over 44C (111F) - with experts predicting it would soon be surpassed because of climate change."


Maybe they can move to higher ground?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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I would suggest by the loss of ice, that something was happening. Climate change is just that... climate change... we don't know what the end result will be, some places could warm, some cool. If AMOC occurs, Europe and the UK could be in for some cooler times.



some places are cooler...

Clipboard01_cuzyqp.jpg


-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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The problem is that we don't know if it's going to happen or how it's going to 'stop'.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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