Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XIII 27

[dik]

For earlier threads, see:
thread1618-496010
thread1618-496614
thread1618-497017
thread1618-497239
thread1618-497988
thread1618-498967
thread1618-501135
thread1618-504850
thread1618-506948
thread1618-507973
thread1618-510266
thread1618-512015


-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Note: I'm not saying that dik is a radical lefty. He genuinely believes in the importance of this issue, as do I. We really only differ in the solutions and the best way to get there. In that way, he's more of a victim of the radical left narrative.

Josh... I'm a conservative, but unlike most conservatives, I have a really strong social conscience.

Okay, I never said otherwise. Though, I merely think the "solutions" have to be less damaging than the "problem". Perhaps, in your book, that means I don't have a "social conscience". I know you probably weren't directing that specifically to me. Like I didn't specifically call you out (for anything other than having a different view of the solutions).

I don't think you are one of the neo-Marxist members of the political left. Though I do think you've fallen for some of their scare tactics. I have a way of figuring out who is a neo-Marxist on Global Warming. I merely listen to them. If they do the following, then they are neo-Marxist:

a) Claim that the world is going to be horribly disfigured by global warming, yet are 100% against any expansion of nuclear energy as a major factor of trying to combat global warming. They have an internally inconsistent stance on the subject.... a dire "act now" attitude. But, when presented with a wonderful carbon free solution to their problem they say, "nah, I think unicorn farts (i.e. some fantasy of green energy that doesn't exist) will be a better solution".

b) Like Greta Thunberg did, claim that CO2 emissions are destroying our planet. Then turn around and oppose a local green energy solution (like the wind farms proposed in Norway) for some minor petty reason.... like it MIGHT interfere with Reindeer migration and disrupt some indigenous people who rely on the reindeer. Either you support non-CO2 energy sources or you don't. An in between stance would be fine.... if you were not so convinced of the dire situation. Total hypocrisy.

By my definition, Dik is not a neo-Marxist. However, (IMO) many of the politicians, activists, reporters, and "scientists" who champion global warming alarmism are definitely neo-Marxists. And, they are gaining a lot of people to their side. This (IMO) is way, way, way more dangerous than anything that can happen from global warming.

 

[GregLocock]

The several times per decade bleaching of the GBR is a non event caused by the El Nino/La Nina cycle. These affect the currents from the top end, as the cold water comes down it kills the warm water coral organisms, and the reef then gets occupied by cold water coral organisms. When the warm current switches on then the reverse happens.

"Only two mass bleaching events had ever been recorded until 2016, and scientists say urgent climate action is needed if the reef is to survive." is cherry picked nonsense, people who study the reef also say this is perfectly nonsense, and the reason only two mass bleachings were seen earlier is because nobody was looking. The qaulity of these bleaching surveys is very poor, people who have checked areas that were claimed to be bleached found them in perfect health.

here's a rather different take on bleaching stories in the mass media.

https://climaterealism.com/2022/03/...threatens-a-great-barrier-reef-tipping-point/

and here's how coral adapts to higher temperatures

https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-04315-7

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[JoshPlumSE]

Greg -

The bleaching events are not of ANY concern to the neo-marxist climate alarmists. They're only important so far as they can be used to promote "the revolution".

 

[dik]

Josh... it may have an impact on the ecosystem, too.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Josh... it may have an impact on the ecosystem, too.

Did you read either of the articles Greg Locock linked too. They looked a COMPLETE repudiation of the narrative you were spinning with your post. If I remember correctly, one of the articles pretty conclusively stated that the reefs were growing and healthier than measured in the past.

Regardless, you didn't understand my post. The point of it was not that the "bleaching" event was mis-reported or wrong. But, that the "global warming alarmists" genuinely don't care about the great barrier reef. All they care about is pushing their neo-Marxist narrative. And, they will use any event / issue to do it.... Regardless of truth, facts, justice or anything else. In the end, they are interested in increasing their own power. That was the point of my comment.

Also, I should point out that given more power to these people is way, way, way more dangerous to the human population (and probably the planet) than anything we can reasonably expect to happen from Global Warming.

 

[GregLocock]

It's just another example of the climate attribution propaganda exercise. There are people, with impressive sounding credentials, who are paid (often by billionaires) to link any weather related event back to the global warming fuss, and then feed those headlines to the mass media, for consumption by the gullible masses. This all sounds like a marvellous conspiracy theory, but even the hive mind at wikipedia mention it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_event_attribution

The Falsification Principle, proposed by Karl Popper, is a way of demarcating science from non-science. It suggests that for a theory to be considered scientific, it must be able to be tested and conceivably proven false. For example, the hypothesis that “all swans are white” can be falsified by observing a black swan. Or, the GBR is bleaching more often due to AGW, relies on GBR bleaching being measured before 1950, which it wasn't, and the trend since it has been measured seems non-conclusive.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[dik]

Yup and I guess we can disagree... I've encountered articles where there is no climate change. I don't agree with them either.

"Climate change is the greatest global threat to coral reef ecosystems. Scientific evidence now clearly indicates that the Earth's atmosphere and ocean are warming, and that these changes are primarily due to greenhouse gases derived from human activities.

As temperatures rise, mass coral bleaching events and infectious disease outbreaks are becoming more frequent. Additionally, carbon dioxide absorbed into the ocean from the atmosphere has already begun to reduce calcification rates in reef-building and reef-associated organisms by altering seawater chemistry through decreases in pH. This process is called ocean acidification.

Climate change will affect coral reef ecosystems, through sea level rise, changes to the frequency and intensity of tropical storms, and altered ocean circulation patterns. When combined, all of these impacts dramatically alter ecosystem function, as well as the goods and services coral reef ecosystems provide to people around the globe."

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/coralreef-climate.html

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

How did coral survive the previous 410 feet of sea level rise?

 

[GregLocock]

The land area of most inhabited coral atolls is increasing, not decreasing. Coral responds to higher sea levels by growing upwards, and to warmer water by evolution or substitution of species.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[JoshPlumSE]

The land area of most inhabited coral atolls is increasing, not decreasing. Coral responds to higher sea levels by growing upwards, and to warmer water by evolution or substitution of species.

Just like how deaths related to weather and climate is at an all time low. Strange that the doom-sayers are constantly pushing a false narrative that we should all about scared of future weather events.

Facts are ignored if they don't fit the proper narrative. I'm not talking specifically about dik, I'm talking about the narrative being pushed by alarmists, the media, activists and politicians.

 

[Tomfh]

Just like how deaths related to weather and climate is at an all time low

Yeah but that involves counting both sides of the ledger, and only climate denialists do that

 

[dik]

This has been shown due to the advanced warning we currently have.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BridgeSmith]

This has been shown due to the advanced warning we currently have.

It also shows our ability to adapt effectively to extreme weather events and changes in climate, at far less cost monetarily and negligible cost to our freedoms. The proposed initiatives to slow climate change will cost far more in money and personal liberties than continuing to adapt to future changes. Unlike the proposals aimed at slowing global warming, adaptation works regardless of whether the current warming trend continues or reverses.

 

[dik]

So far...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

I don't know that you've said anything in your last two comments.

 

[BridgeSmith]

There's much more evidence and a much longer history to support humanity's ability to continue to adapt to climate change, than there is for the current warming trend continuing.

 

[dik]

We'll have to wait and see 'how things shake out'. We don't know the extent of the change. In addition, adaptation takes time. Things may be changing far faster than they ever have in past.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Sea level rise has averaged 4/10 of an inch per year prior to the industrial revolution. The change is occuring more slowly than it ever has during human history.

It's as if CO2 prevents climate change.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

We'll have to wait and see 'how things shake out'. We don't know the extent of the change. In addition, adaptation takes time. Things may be changing far faster than they ever have in past.

Independent fact checkers have determined this statement to be false.

Didn't we already talk about how the rate of sea level rise at the end of the ice age was HUGELY greater than any sea rise we're seeing today? By an order of magnitude.

Wasn't that because of something like a 7 degrees Celsius change during a reasonably short period. And, we adapted. In the stone age. With zero technology (other than sticks, rocks and fire). We're worried about something like a 1.5 degree Celsius change.

In the past, we were able to move with our feet. Just pick up our possessions, strap them to our back and move to higher ground or better areas. Now, we can ship our possession in a jet plane to where ever is better. I think we're going to be fine.

That's not to say there won't be costs associated with it. But, the costs of "preventing" climate change are way, way, way higher than the costs of adapting and mediating it.

 

[TugboatEng]

The irony is that if you take an honest look at the historical data, CO2 may actually prevent climate change. It is an insulator and insulators tend to stabilize conditions, not accelerate them.